Did you have a vacation mark? Oh my. Yes it was. Thank you. Yeah I got my fill my
grandkids. That's for sure.
Yeah mm. Yes. Yeah.
Well it looks like it's just almost 9:00. So recording in progress.
Wait a few seconds here until I see none on my phone
when they're up on a man left on the clock tower. Does the clock still
it ought to be sounding any time now.
Okay, so welcome to the August eight edition of the Jefferson County
Board of Commissioners meeting. I'll call this meeting to order and I'd just like
to say if I had gotten it together and drafted a proclamation, I would be proclaiming
that its national farmers market week. I was too busy working at a farmer's market
in the last two Sundays. Think about proclamations anywhere, but I am super grateful
for all of our farmers and I know firsthand how hard they work even on Sundays. So
um I just want to make a shout out to our farmers and our fabulous local farmers
markets. Um can I share some some good news. Yeah. Um way to start off monday morning.
Um You know, I think many of us were pleased that the senate passed the large piece
of legislation yesterday, the $370 billion largest piece of climate legislation ever
passed in this country. Um and a little known fact, it was actually a former Jefferson
county that wrote much of that was in D. C. Last week I saw bree van Cleave that
graduate valedictorian and she was the mastermind behind that bill. She had a team
she was working with but just really exciting to see a local is making that kind
of impact on a global scale. So go jefferson County. I was really proud that, you
know, we had just the smallest cannon that yeah, I got to tell scott mark,
but superintendent becomes close. I should be really proud. Yeah, definitely. And
I think that I heard as part of that they're gonna start doing the, maybe now I'm
gonna buy my electric car because they're gonna start giving us the rebates again.
So anyway, um so called meeting is called to order and as we do on monday mornings,
we love to hear from the members of our community who showed up with something to
share. So if anyone has joined us this morning to make public comment, please use
the raise hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen. Mhm. No one's on the phone.
So that's the option today. Anyone out there? I see a number of people on the list.
Anyone wishing to make a comment this morning? Mm
So we'll leave public comment open until 9:30 in case anyone Feels the urge to make
a comment in the next 25 minutes. Um Anything else for the go to the order that either
Greg or kate you want to share this morning mike.
No. Okay, well we can turn to consent agenda. It
was shorter than the last two weeks but still some meaty stuff and hear anything
that anyone wants to call out on the consent agenda.
Good stuff, warn people that there are some, you know, detours coming on on the highway
one oh one, you know south of Lake Leland three different spots, they're gonna be
closing the road. So it's a significant detour for South county residents but appreciate
this work. There were some, I don't know um agreed travelers last week about the
the trip stealing delays on the way to square along highway one on one and this is
the process that they, you know, no one went through. I don't think they had a viable
detour but great to see a detour route on the county roads. Yeah, there was some
back and forth with public works about that, asking why we didn't use the old Gardner
road as a detour around that chip sealing. And there wasn't a request from state
D. O. T. To use that as an alternate route for getting around that road work. So
I would just say I like I like seeing fish barrier removal projects every time I
see them. I'm just super grateful um that we invest in this way in the infrastructure
that are nature's infrastructure where we intersect with other species and our needs,
our need for roads and their need for getting back up the streams. So grateful to
see both the trout unlimited uh cold water connection campaign and then the specific
there was a specific fish barrier removal project on Leland Creek. So
yeah, I think the reality of the bipartisan infrastructure packages that there's
gonna be a lot of road construction in the next few years. So I think it's gonna
be a reality which is, you know, it's a good time to be making these both environmental
improvements and um this preservation. So I think it's gonna be with us for a little
while and it's probably a good problem to have versus the alternative. Yeah. Um
anyone interested in making a motion but consent, I'd be happy to move to adopt,
approve and adopt the consent agenda has presented a second all in favor by
Okay that passes unanimously. So it is 907. Now is anybody out there on the attendee
list um wishing to make a public comment. You can use the raise hand button at the
bottom of your zoom screen.
I see the names on the list. It's not usually quiet people so okay, I'll let you
be quiet over there. Um well the next thing on our agenda is the 945 with with Dr.
Barry. Um do we want to do some briefing from last week Man
time Word
I could start, I was out of town but working a little bit each day of course it's
ul on monday um Tuesday I had a planning meeting for the commissioner
gelder and I from county are gonna be going to um Minnesota in october to speak with
their public Health Association about the foundational public health transformation.
Um, and the, some of the work that we have adopted with changes to health and uh,
Minnesota, just starting that process and has asked Washington to kind of be there
um, lead the way and talked about lessons learned. So a planning meeting for that
was very helpful. Um, on Wednesday started the, uh, excuse
me, public health was funded to do some diversity equity and inclusion Training with
a number of public health staff as well as other county staff. And that started on
Wednesday. Um, local consultants doing network and nice to get started on network,
which, you know, all county departments did in summer and fall of 2020. And then
we kind of haven't, haven't picked up the ball since then. So really glad the public
health took the lead on getting that funding and securing the consultants and look
forward to digging in on that work, looking at how institutions through the lens
of public health, um, can, can be addressing inequities and we certainly see in public
health, um, that in health outcomes in general, how much we are still um, Providing
different level of service and seeing different outcomes based on race. So look forward
to that work. It's about 11 weeks um, that we'll be working together as a group also
had a leadership council meeting for the puget sound partnership that day. And um,
I'm not sure if I mentioned this last week, but it's interesting that um dr bush
estuary project was a bit of a, through a bit of a wrench in the works. It's like
jefferson is often the problem child. So that is not our project obviously, but because
it's such a big project, there is um some sense that it is, you know, could take
up so much of the funding available and there are a number of other projects um that
have been also ranked and you know, deemed as worthy capital projects. So there was
a bit of a compromise made where the project was funded a portion of it, um about
$15 million. And then there's six other projects um um large capital projects list
for salmon recovery, puget sound recovering restoration that will also be funded.
So, you know, as as we said, it's kind of extraordinary levels of funding, a great
opportunity to be moving a lot of these ahead and um they should all get funded.
So we did, we approved list including $15 million for the doctor Bush project, which
should be enough that the real hang up, I'd say is that the, the restoration
environmental community would really like to see the Department of Transportation
be at the table more. So instead of using up so much of the limited funds that we
have for restoration, They're saying this is a largely a roads project. So why is
the Department of Transportation coming to the table with more funding. So hopefully
this Um 15 million that the partnership will be allocating this enough to kind of
keep it moving and get D. O. T. to the table to come up with the remainder of the
funding which is of course the cost is increasing um probably by the day. Uh, but
it still seems that it's seen as a very important project. Um let's see thursday
um didn't work a lot. It was flying home that day. Got stuck in the massive thunderstorm
that killed three people by the White House is tragic. Um That's very dramatic. Storm
landed me, although that did give me time to write the reproductive choice resolution
which the board of Health will be considering. And so you'll get a draft of that
with the Board of Health packet later this week Greg, you'll see it sooner if you
haven't already. Um and certainly welcome feedback on that friday
a little bit. Um had some meetings with David timmons, get an update on Fort Warden
P. D. A. And some uh joint scheming that we're doing there for some federal funding.
Um and uh call with paul Jewel. So I don't know if you saw
that the Legislative Director for Association of Counties Melanie. Uh and she was
no longer with and paul jewel will be taking her position for the time being. So
um big shift there Melanie has spent are my right hand person. They're so big shift.
But paul jules. Great. He understands where all issues really well. Um so he will
now be the main point of context legislative issues and you know, you both work with
natural resources and growth management things as well have been canceled. A meeting
with housing solutions network unfortunately came back from D. C. With a cold and
after daily testing and testing negative. So uh that would be masking certainly masking
around the office. Um saturday had a partnership leadership council get together
mostly honoring number of departing board members. Representative Jim Wilcox, longstanding
member. Um j manning the former department of ecology directors stepping down from
the board. So I had a farewell for a few departing board members. So that
was my read.
All right. Yeah, no, you managed to be pretty busy amid all the traffic and travel.
Um I guess unless there's anyone that wants to make public comment, I'll just shout
out for Heidi. Um Let's see. I had a fairly quiet week dog days this summer and
all that on Tuesday. I really just, you know, read it in a fetal ball waiting for
election returns to come in. Um on Wednesday we had a special meeting of Jeff com
and we're gonna have another special meeting this week responding to a request for
an mou from the staff. I think I mentioned a little bit last week modeled after counties
and Looking looking for a way that we can satisfy that desire from our definitely
strapped staff. You know, and when you have staff making requests such as if there's
more than 36 hours of overtime in a regular pay period, we want to go 2-1, you know,
that they've been doing a lot of overtime. Um and so working, working on that, had
a meeting with the um consultants for helping us through the hiring of the director
for transit is very helpful and you know, the executive landscape is still pretty
bleak out there. Um So we'll see how that goes, but helpful to have that conversation
on thursday, have the uh olympic area agency on aging council governments meeting.
And that is going well. Uh maybe the only board that I'm on that is fully staffed
right now. So it's it's good. I think they might be the only area agency on aging
that is actually reaching the new 1 to 75 case manager ratio that the state is
requiring um had a meeting, you know, helping the Northern Canal chamber go through
potential merger with Jefferson County Chamber and having mou that were uh negotiating
now and going back and forth. And we'll have another meeting to kind of vote finally
with the North of Canal Chamber on monday the 15th. And so we're just uh working
with some members of both chambers to refine that mou and I had, you know, one of
those three meeting at a time things where I made a presentation to the court level
village council, they also had a great presentation from Chief Black about the merger
proposition with East East jefferson fire. So that will be of course in november,
there's a good article about it in and I think um and then met with the parks and
rec advisory board. I was a little late so I missed the presentation of the pros
but uh that is going to come to us soon and we'll have a presentation but it was
elite um and then went to pay my respects to Fleming as as her farewell party, I
think it was the final day, but great to be able to on her on the way out. I did
uh walk and talk with residents on on friday morning at matt walker. So that was
very satisfying and good conversation as well. I had to do a lot more listening on
the way up but I can speak on the way down. Um and that was really my week,
was that just because you're out of breath? Yes. Yeah. Okay, we got the fairly uh
seat base, so. Yeah. Yeah. Um let's see. So uh Tuesday, I
had a meeting that was hosted by the Northwest straits Foundation Foundation Commission
Commission um about some additional funding that's come in from dealing with derelict
vessels, which is awesome. So they'll be working with directly with county Mrcs
to deploy this funding. It's not gonna be done. Uh Well D. N. R. D. N. R. Will actually
remove the vessels but the Mrcs will actually prioritize the additional vessels for
removal. So it's great to see some extra capacity because it's not a cheap proposition
to remove a moldering boat from the marine waters and safely. So thankful for that.
Um I attended and then that evening had the Jefferson MRC meeting um which is
always a great roundtable of local issues. Um They're and they're having their
annual conference. It's just a one day thing in padilla bay in the middle of september
and I'm gonna attend that. I've never been to one of those. So Wednesday morning
I had an update meeting with Deb Murdoch and heard about her top top stocks in the
community and always enjoyed my time with her and appreciate the work she does.
Um Wednesday I took Greg to lunch and we didn't talk about any business, talked about
our farm projects and what we're growing in the gardens and and just to celebrate
his excellent primary results. So nice work. Greg. I know, I know it's a lot of work
um checked in with willie on Wednesday in advance of our K. P. TZ session. Interview
session on thursday head the jet jefferson transit finance committee meeting Wednesday
afternoon and then I headed out to marry stone for a meeting with a constituent was
really nice to go somewhere where someone wanted to meet with me and just talked
about issues and sit on her porch and look at the water and it was, I was like it
was a first for me. So super great meeting, lots of important issues to discuss,
but just a nice relaxed setting. So thursday morning I met with the
consultants who are doing the transit director search, had a great conversation with
them, talked about how great our interim director Nicole Gauthier is doing. So anyway,
that was a good meeting. Um the pilot project for the trust land transfer rework
were do the rankings were due on thursday, so I got those in um had
a what's that? His red sun cats in my lap. I always want to say cats in my lap. But
Phil Anderson's other radio show attention please had an interview with Deb Stenson
and Willie Benson, Nora Petrich talking about emergency response in our county. And
then also the all county picnic which is coming up. Unfortunately it's on on august
sunday so I will be again at the Farmer's Market and Ballard with Spring Ring Farm
but I hope that some of us can go and get the information and updates from folks
at the all county picnic. Um thursday afternoon I had trust land
transfer work group meeting And then I had to check in with monty about this week's
agenda because mark was gone last week. So it's always kind of fun to see monty step
into the county administrator role for 10 minutes and I appreciate all of his input
and he has lots of it. So um, and then also attended to send off for Lorrie Fleming.
Sad to see her go, didn't get to work with her very much in my short tenure as a
commissioner. And it was great to hear everyone reflecting on her impact to public
health in Jefferson County and glad to hear she's still gonna stay engaged as a consultant
and we'll look forward to seeing where she shows up and then friday, I kind of took
took some time off, spend, spend some time with my mom and I had friends over for
dinner also for the first time and like I think a year on friday evening. So that
was awesome. Development crabbing, uh, did all my chores on saturday. I went to the
Ballard farmer's market again and I'm not as tired as I was last week. So getting
my farmer legs and I, that's, that's my last week. Mark, what
about you? Did you Greg you have something to add. Oh, you're muted. Sorry,
little report on my, on my weekend, which is not really business work, but county
work, but I did go to the departure festival at Leland, which is a great, great group
folks, lots of great reggae music and had a good time and also harvested our meat
bird. So I'm a little tired today after a hard day dealing death for food. So yeah,
I feel, I feel the farmer appreciation today. Yeah, good, good to stop and recognize
national Farmer's market week. I wish I had known it was coming up. I would have
had a proclamation ready for us today. I wish I had my camera ready to get video
of the chicken that ran chase had been chasing it probably 50 ft after it had no
head. A great segway to mark. There's APBS documentary,
but the chicken will live for years without a head. What? Yeah, I highly recommend
it watching this right now like that. That chicken doesn't look dead. I'm like, it's
got no head years. This one looks for years. So I just want to know which,
um, uh, did you do the preacher's seat? Did you do the Cannonball? How many ways
did you jump in that lake mark last week? All of the above can openers, preacher's
seat, Cannonball. My grandkids, they're in the water and they say bombers grandpa.
So lots of long walks. A couple of good bike rides, a lot of grilling and smoking
salmon ribs. Um, yeah, just truly a very relaxing week. And I'm, I'm grateful that
you allowed me to be gone for a week and I think monty this morning for standing
in for me and I asked him, I said, did you like it? You want to be the full time
county administrator And he said no thanks. So, um, yeah. So I'm, I'm rested and
refreshed and I've got a list here about a dozen things to tackle starting tomorrow.
So yeah, I love working here and as a board you're a pleasure to work with.
Well we're glad to have you back. Market was a little bit quieter around here without
you. Okay. Um Okay it's 9 25. Now. Is
anybody now that you've heard everything that we did last week? All of us is doesn't
anyone on the attendee list have any comments
really quiet this morning? Everyone's got this summer, what's it this summer doldrums
or I don't know. Okay well I'll keep public comment open for a few more minutes.
Um Do we want to look ahead?
I'll go first. How about that and shake things up. Um Let's see this evening. I'm
gonna go to Fort warden and do a little walk around with uh North North Wind and
the school of the arts and just see what what they're, what they've got cooking out
there. So that'll be fun. Um The next two days I might be out quite a bit
because I'm gonna be in a headlock doing noxious weed coordinator interviews so we've
got four candidates were gonna be interviewing and um and then on Wednesday afternoon
I'll come back into town. I'll be in here a lot on Wednesday um and meet with chief
black. This got my latest issue of the high country news and it's all about community
response to wildfire threats. So um I've got lots more to talk with him about this
week and then Wednesday evening it's the olympic Discovery Trail board meeting.
Um thursday morning we are wrapping up the trust land transfer. I keep saying we're
wrapping up but we got we are wrapping up the pilot rankings so we're gonna they're
gonna compile all of our rank lists and show us which projects ranked the highest
from the 10 members of the committee. And um it wasn't probably won't be a surprise.
Well maybe it'll be surprised you guys that doubles like our project here in east
jefferson county came out pretty high on my list. Um just based on the criteria that
they had us reflect on in ranking the project. So um I was glad to see that thursday
afternoon Mark and I will get ready for um next week's meeting and then
friday morning I have the encumbered my first meeting of the encumbered lands working
group, Cossack working group on that encumbered lands to talk about the funding that
was in the bill last year. That was to come to clown in jefferson and Romania and
I think in counties as well. Um there was $10 million dollars and I so I don't know
what how they're gonna decide how much who gets how much and what what that funding
can be used for but that's I think the work of this working group. So um and then
this week is the county fair and I will be going to the county fair whenever I can
and hanging out with Greg and the democrats and just walking around and snuggling
pigs and getting wrapping paper and seeing all the people. So looking forward to
that. And then it's back to the ballot farmer, farmer's market on sunday for me,
hopefully this week we broke the all time spring rain farm sales record yesterday.
And so I said to john john on the way home last night, we're both very wary. I'm
like how are we gonna break our record again? So hoping for that. It's a challenge
for next week. Okay. I'm gonna do a last call for public comment. Would anyone you
don't want to get a word in edgewise here? Okay. I'm gonna close public comment and
turn it over to my colleagues for their what's what they've got on their weekend.
I could go and it would be relatively quick again. My trip last week was not planned
and so I ended up being coming into contact with this week's planned vacation. Um
I'm sorry to be missing with their but long long scheduled multi family camping trip
in Leavenworth later this week. So I would be sorry to miss the county fair. Um let's
see. We have meeting today at the lunch hour and then I have a connection planning
committee meeting after our public session today. So I do need to wrap operate at
4:30 um tomorrow Economic development council finance committee meeting and we'll
be trying to uh, wrap up a number of things before leaving town. So I'll be out of
the office Wednesday through friday this week back monday.
Great. Let's see. I have the tourism coordinating council tomorrow and then I am
doing my first pickleball practice for our upcoming pickleball turner right here.
You're, you got the medical clearance Kate for the 31st. No, no, but well there's
a huge backlog for physical therapy so I haven't started yet, so Oh no, well
tournament. Okay, you're gonna, you're gonna play? Yes, I just might be a little
compromised, but I'll definitely be compromised after I play warm up first, you know.
Um, and then I'm meeting the summertime a little surprised to see that the Brennan
and powered teams coalition is meeting up on Tuesday on Wednesday, as I mentioned
before, We have a second special meeting of Jeff at nine a.m. And then we have the
olympic area clean interagency, olympic region clean air Agency at 10. Um, and then
today the development meeting for seven pagan is after that. And then agenda
planning for the board of health meeting as the chair. I think our public health
directors on a well deserved vacation this week. So we'll be uh limping along without
her with dr barry and glenn and myself then I have the only cat board meeting on
Wednesday, they're still struggling with some hiring issues. Thought we had a good
finance director on the hook and they ultimately bulk. So it was really sad to see
that if you know any good uh finance experts were with nonprofit experience. We're
looking for him. Um, on thursday have behavioral health consortium meeting. It's
gonna be chaos, I predict. Um, and then on friday, the j bat meeting and I do have
a booth at the fair. So taking most of the day to set up the booth and, and I'll
be at the fair all weekend long, having fun and uh, you know, make making illicit
music perhaps familiar. So come and come and say hi.
The only thing that I see on the horizon that I wanted to check in with you guys
about is the board of Natural resources meeting next week. All right. Are you guys
planning on attending? I I would like to attend on the 17th. I cannot attend on the
16th. Did we get any clarification about when it is a notice public meeting already?
So we wouldn't have to worry about kind of clerking it and we could notice it as
if we were going more than one of us is going to be present. We would just have to
notice it as one of our meetings trip. Remember we're gonna field trip meeting well,
but I know a guy I was working on trying to get a better idea of the exact agenda
because they do have a bunch of business that they will be doing that on a field
trip. Um So um maybe we need to check in with A. D. L. And just see I have some availability
in my calendar and I would like to attend part of it but probably not if it's you
know on the west end on a field trip part and be more interested in the business
part of it. Just because I only have a couple hours here and there. Yeah I think
I sent you guys the agenda as I have which was still pretty bare bones. And then
I signed up for that. I think we all got the invitation to the town hall in
Tacoma on the 17. But then I don't know you guys don't all have a dinner with commissioner
Franz on the 17th. Do you
coffee with her morning? Uh friday morning 17. Okay
19 around the 19th as well? Okay I have
17. But that's I could I could go I could probably attend that. We all have stuff
in the middle of the day on Tuesday. Right? And then we have jefferson transit and
a couple other things but I'm interested. I think the 17th it seems like it's all
going after the experimental forest was kind of how I understood that um agenda
as it was presented. um if you want to go on if I'm happy to not go on the 17th
and to kind of Either go on the morning in the morning of the 16th or maybe both
mornings potentially. Um so I think so we need to clarify the public meeting piece
and I see a deals on that. So maybe she can look into that. Yeah, I'm on the phone
with her right now. She's gonna be looking into it and getting back. Thank you. But
I think we can also dance around it and just make sure one of us is there at the
time. I mean I'm happy to work on that and not go to some of it if that if that would
be easier. I just think it's it seems like it's all over the place. I think it would
be challenging and it's we're gonna be talking about stuff. So I feel like it would
be not something where we're just going in in in a class like when I went to timber
school and only taking information one way. So you so you do get a sense that
like our requested in our isn't on the agenda is it? No, no, no. I mean
I guess I don't know why I say that particularly except that it's a retreat.
Mhm. I mean all of this is really stuff that's not in the county specifically. I
guess
that's the experimental for us. Yeah.
Um Yeah I'm happy to piece together um Set different times to be there if that's
easier. I only have a couple of windows and hoping they line up with when the board
of Metro Resources will be a red lion and Angeles or something. Um but they'll be
in business mode. Well I can work with to figure out the public meeting peace and
okay that's a good first step. Yeah. And discuss it today and I'm gonna mean pretty
much figure it out. Yeah. Okay. Anything else on the horizon? That that
is the question? Um Greg brought up the Kilmer climate events on the
17th. I'm not I was planning on going and I do not think there will be able to
be a two way conversation about county business at all. I think it's a program. Um
so do you plan to go Greg, you know I. R. S repeat in the positive but let's
dance around the rest of the B. And R. Stuff. So I'm happy if it makes sense if I
can't go all day the 17th and I need to do that instead. That's a higher priority.
Just thought I want to do it all. Yeah. It's hard when we're actually in different
places now. Yes. Yeah. I mean another thing that Caroline and I started to talk
about is the when do we start talking about going back to hybrid meetings? The city
is doing all in person meetings now and I guess they probably have a calling option
but so but I think it's soon that we need to start talking about
that when we use the dial as our trigger. I thought and we are still well in the
high, so I mean we know how to do it. I thought when it was medium is when we went
to hybrid I guess. Yeah, but it's just staying high, you know, so that, that was
the question for Allison. It's like what, what's the new normal?
Yeah. Okay. Mark, what's your week look like? Mostly working with
staff on budget matters. IT policies and other things meet with 18 tomorrow.
Um, yeah, Nothing's dependence. Just the mechanics of government.
Another thing that's next week is that ICG meeting under the 10th. The special meeting.
I don't know if there's anything we need to talk about in terms of that. I have one
thing that's related but not directly. Um, Gary Gant the hud's field office director
for Washington state is coming out to take a tour that we're putting together of,
you know, brown peter's place and Bayside and seven page event. And I just, lots
of people are expressing an interest in this tour. And if there's any of these facilities
that you haven't really had a tour of before we can dance if you have time, you know,
before the board of health meeting, starting at 9 30. There's any of those pieces
that you'd like to join for. I'm sure we can make that work. I guess maybe I prioritized
kate. Um, since you were streaming on the, on the I was a fun board but I think we
can just do it without having a forum at any piece and you know, I'm happy to come
and go to different sections of, I haven't planned to overcome overlapping conflicts
on the 18th and until noon, so. Okay, well maybe some of the city stuff that I've
been to before seven, haven, Cosmo Brown. We can and uh I haven't been to the house
shelter though, I would like to see that we're including that as well. So I'll talk
to kate a little bit since its Housing fund board meeting. We can kind of just scheduling
offline. Okay. Um that meeting also the I. C.
G. It sounds like um we've talked to the Housing fund board about how to present
the work that the board is doing. Um it sounds like the city really wants us to just
fold it into our jurisdictional reports, which a little confused how to do that since
it's both jurisdictions um that we should maybe think about what we want to have
Heidi report on. I was I have a meeting scheduled with the community conversations
committee of the housing fund board and some communications aligning with what you
said kate to stick it into ours and glad you brought it up, but I was hoping just
to have three minutes for a really focused presentation of housing fund board uh
efforts. Is that in our jurisdictional update? I know it's the city as well but you
know. Okay. Um That sounds fine and I'll let you and Heidi figure out how you want
to do that since she would typically be reporting out for us. You know I'm happy
to have one of you guys do it because you're on the housing board. I mean I feel
like let's not just because you know I'm the chair this year, you guys are on the
housing boards you know so I'd be happy it's like five minutes for the whole report
right? So I'll frame it based on housing fund board and throw it through marked by
both of you guys to see if there's anything to. And yeah it totally makes sense to
me. Free cater you to do that report because you know I'm not in those conversations
so I can provide no nuance to that report. And maybe next week we could brainstorm
if there are other things we'd like to talk about in our report maybe including that.
You know that we're starting to look at structure of rentals and yeah I think that
sounds really good. And the stock plans workshop we have today. Yeah I do have to
um skip out of the I. C. G. For a few minutes to join the school board meeting that
taking an important vote on the child care facility. Um And so I need to represent
since we're involved in that in the fiscal sponsor of the 1.375 million from the
feds. Um So I need to leave. So it might be better if we just put in Greg doing that
presentation because Murphy's law might have it, but I'm in the school. Yes. Yeah,
that sounds good.
Um Anything else that we need? A coordinator come up with a plan for coordination.
I'm gonna be out much of next friday. Have coffee with commissioner friends and swim
friday morning. I guess they're staying up on the peninsula longer than just to be
in our meeting. But um I have a big event at my house on saturday that I need to
do all the work for on friday. So um
Okay, well it's 944 stretch stretch break. Oh, I need to stretch.
I moved literally a ton of tomatoes yesterday.
We can go ahead and bring dr barry over us here there and
Willie. Well, is there too making my hand for K. P. T. Z.
Mm
Good morning colleagues. Everyone, we're having our stretch break. Our 944 stretch
break.
I had tomato arms.
Mhm. Okay. My class was 9:45. My phone clocks is 9:43.
I don't know if KB disease rolling yet. Um but
let's kick this off. So over to you dr barry. How's everything on the Covid front.
So we have a little bit of good news on the Covid front, which is hopeful after so
many weeks of bad news nationwide, cases are just starting to decrease. We see an
8% decrease nationwide for covid 19 cases. Hospitalizations are flat deaths are still
rising as we discussed before. Those are lagging indicators. So we wouldn't expect
those to turn around just yet. They've got 11% in the last week. So we're losing
just under 500 Americans a day to COVID-19 in Washington state. We are seeing in
cases start to down trend. We've seen a slowdown trend over the last couple of weeks
and that has continued. Hospitalizations are also flattening at this point at the
state level as our debts. So we're a little bit ahead in Washington state of the
national trends in jefferson County, we are finally seeing our case rates continue
to downtrend. Um, so our cases are 5,365. Our case rate this week is
547/100,000 with a 17% positivity that suggests approximately
40% case ascertainment rate. So we still are only catching about less than half of
the cases that we have. But we are really seeing those numbers contain markedly down
trends. We're hoping that that will continue going forward. We have one person currently
in the hospital for COVID-19, that person was hospitalized last week. It's been quite
ill. Um, and remains ventilated at this point and then we have had no new deaths
due to covid 19 in our community in clarion County. We have diagnosed 14,866 cases
of Covid 19. That puts the clown county rate at 509 per 100,000 with a 14% positivity
rate. Um, in Clay Allen County we expect that we have about a 30% case ascertainment
rate due to our lower reporting of home and tests in cloud. Um, We have two individuals
currently hospitalized for COVID-19 for a total of 424 hospitalizations in this response
119 deaths. So the COVID-19 front is starting to improve. That is very hopeful on
our end. It's unclear yet how much, how long that trend will continue. But we are
hopeful that we're seeing numbers turn around in the right direction. We are also
closely monitoring the situation with monkeypox. At this point, we have diagnosed
166 cases in Washington State. No cases have been diagnosed yet incl alum or Jefferson
counties. But we have started to see high risk contacts in our region and so we do
anticipate that we're going to start seeing positive cases in our, in our region.
Shortly as a quick reminder, we talked a little bit about this on our last call but
monkeypox or what's what's transitioning to be called MPV is uh, is that is a painful
rash usually starts, us bumps, red bumps that then scab over. It can happen on any
part of your body and it can be spread through any close skin to skin contact, it
is most commonly being spread by sexual contact at this point. And at this point
it is disproportionately affecting men in the gay community. Um, men who identify
as gay bisexual or men who have sex with men. We are not seeing broad transmission
in the community as a whole. At this point, we are looking forward to when we get
some of the vaccine for monkeypox in our community. The genius vaccine. Unfortunately,
it's in very short supply and we have not received any allocations in jefferson County
at this point. But when we do, we will start doing some direct outreach to high risk
populations in our community to vaccinate them. Um, for the general public as a whole,
the risk remains incredibly low. Um, but we are seeing transmission in the United
States, primarily through close skin skin contact and particularly sexual contact.
So in order to protect yourself at this point, the most important thing to do is
limit your the number of new sexual partners And please be thoughtful when engaging
in sexual activities. If you have a new rash, make sure you get that checked out
first. If you have a new symptoms of an illness, fever chills, uh, flu like symptoms.
Sometimes those can come before the MPV rash shows up. So please don't engage in
sexual activity until you've gotten those checked out too. Um, if you are in a high
risk group and you are anxiously awaiting a vaccine, we will let you know as soon
as we get vaccine in our community, but we don't have it yet. We do have it though.
We do have a way to access it though. For those who have been exposed, you can do
post exposure vaccination for those who have been exposed to the MPV. So if you know
that you've been exposed to contact with a partner, please give us a call from Jefferson
County Department of Public Health and will help you access the vaccine. So with
that I'm happy to take any questions from our commissioners.
Um first of all, thank you for including the case ascertainment rates as part of
routine role. I appreciate it. Um and it's yeah, it's just one of those, I don't
know. It's really awful for me. Um and the nationwide trend of fatalities going up
was a little troubling to me. I thought it was more like means that more than 25%
increase in a week or so. I mean it seems I know it's a lagging indicator but it's
still disturbing. It's up 11% in the last week. But it has been trending up.
Mm. Did we lose dr barry or
B. A B. A five B. A 4.6.
I'm gonna go ahead and turn off my video just so you can hear me better. Um So we've
seen hospitalizations and that's rising at the national level at a slow rate for
quite some time, even though we haven't been seeing case rates rise at the same level.
What we think is going on there is that covid 19 with these highly contagious variants
is getting into pockets of society that are not adequately vaccinated, primarily,
not adequately vaccinated or boosted. And so when we see particularly elder individuals
who are not vaccinated or boosted or not, haven't gotten their second booster. We
are still seeing severe disease in those cases, thankfully. We have not seen that
play out here either in column or jefferson county. And we do think the primary driver
of that is how well vaccinated we are Now, it still can reach folks, there are still
some folks in our community who are not adequately vaccinated. Um and we have seen
severe disease there with the person who is currently hospitalized, was unvaccinated.
Um, and so it's a good reminder if you haven't gotten around to getting vaccinated
yet, there's still time, it's still really important to do so. And to go ahead and
get your booster. So get three doses for most folks, four doses if you're over 65
or immuno suppressed. Great, thank you.
Yeah, we were just talking before you came out about whether we should be thinking
about going back to in person hybrid meetings. Um, and you know, we have tried to
set our decision making to the the thermometer of risk and it just doesn't seem to
be going back down to the moderate level. Can you help us think about if and when
to go back to in person. I think it is reasonable to have in person meetings with
safety for options in place. So in clown for example, we've been doing in person
meetings for some time. Um I would certainly in any kind of in person meeting strongly
recommend high quality masks for everyone involved. Um and a remote option for those
who are not, you know, not in a safe group to access those meetings. Um There are
of course individuals in our community who are immuno suppressed, who are gonna want
to access that meeting, but who aren't going to feel comfortable going into an indoor
space, Making sure we have the remote option available. And I would look at making
sure we have good ventilation in that space and the ability to limit capacity to
some extent. So something like a 50% capacity. I think we could do that well. Um
that would allow for spacing masking and good ventilation and then we could feel
confident that we're not causing significant transmission through our meetings.
Great, thank you. It's been a little bit tricky. That sound quality in hybrid with
high quality masks tricky has um has found a way around that problem.
The logistics are tricky. Um we so far have done okay with hybrid. Um but we do generally
have mics at each person's space, um to make it possible to hear them um through
their masks and then we have some individuals who just can't quite project through
a mask and so they'll take it off while they're speaking and put it back on. Um for
many folks that kn 95 will do the job. A full N 95 is hard to hear through, but a
kn 95 or KF 94 usually you can hear okay through if you present. Okay. Thank you.
Me too. Did we Mhm. Did we pass
anything to, we have to update an ordinance and we said we were gonna tire um, meetings
to the risk style. I don't, I kind of remember that we did update. I think we put
it in the temporary temporary policy. Yeah. So we would have to update that,
wow. Any desire to have any discussion about this, right. Kate, I'm not sure what
we have to do it on K. P. T. Z. But I'm happy happy to open that up again next week
and take a look at it. I would love to be in the same room as you guys. Yeah. Okay,
that sounds good. Well done that for next week. Thank you. Dr barry worries. I think
it is a challenge. We always have to adapt to this virus and I think the newest thing
we're having to adapt to is these persistently high levels of transmission. And how
do we find a way to move forward with meaningful business while we continue to see
that level of transmission in the community? Yeah, I didn't. That was the question.
I had the same one. So, um, I don't have any other questions and I think we got a
easy, we do. We have, we have several somewhat detailed questions, but I think very
good ones. Um, so one person, the first person asked, I have a friend who tested
positive for COVID-19 and attended an outdoor event. That mask. He told everyone
who approached him that he was positive, but his wife tested negative, so she did
not mask at this outdoor event. Is that a safe practice? Could she be a carrier without
symptoms? Um, so I would say the likelihood of transmitting in an outdoor space is
already very low. So that is one of the few places that it is acceptable to attend
if you are positive. But if you're attending as a positive person, you should be
masking in an outdoor setting. If you're testing negative, I think it is very reasonable
to go to outdoor events, even if you've been in close contact with someone who has
Covid, because the probability of transmission is so low in the Space is um, and
remember if you took an antigen test that day, you are very unlikely to transmit
to others in that in the next 24 hour period. So that's another good safety mechanism.
It sounds like this couple took a lot of great steps to reduce the risk of transmitting
to other people and I suspect that no one contracted covid from their presence at
that gathering. So thank you for taking all those good safety steps. Uh, this next
person asked about data regarding risk of transmission of COVID-19 as a result of
train travel, specifically, I'm interested in longer trips with small private bedroom
or room met Masking in common spaces on the train seems essential. But is there a
risk of transmission even in closed private spaces because of recirculated air when
traveling for 24 hours or more mass must be room for eating and drinking and and
for sleeping. Um, does that present a significant risk of exposure. So trains have
historically been a very high risk space for Covid 19 transmission, particularly
actually when we look at the early terrible outbreak in new york, a lot of that was
spread by the subway. Um, and if you spent time in the subway, you know that that's
a very closed airspace. There's not a lot of good air circulation down there. So
it's easy to see how that happened When it comes to trains, they do carry a risk
of transmitting COVID-19. There have been some studies looking at when you're looking
at an airborne virus, how it spreads throughout the train. Your highest risk is if
you are unmasked right next to someone who is positive, but the virus does really
circulate throughout the train. However many trains have done a lot of work on improving
their ventilation of putting in place, good air circulation, putting in place, HEPA
filters to circle, circulate that air and filter it so that they're not spreading
virus around the cabin. So if that's a concern for you and you're looking at train
travel, I would take a look at the company that you're looking at traveling with
and see if they have made those kind of upgrades. If they have, if you wear your
mask in common spaces and take it off in a private space, make sure you're eating
in a private space because that's the time with your mask off. I think you can do
that well. But you do want a mask in the common areas, particularly just like with
planes when the train is stopping is usually when they turn those uh, turn those
fans off.
And then some really good questions about. So this person asked how strong is the
evidence supporting the use of in vaccinated individuals in light of frequent rebound
infections that are seen in this medication, does it seem likely that the dosage
or dosing schedule will be changing in the near future? So a little bit about COVID-19
rebound in people who have been treated with packs loaded. So looking at the initial
trials for packs loaded that moved for its approval. They found that about 1-2% of
those who received experienced what was called a COVID-19 rebound. I either they
saw their viral load goes significantly down or potentially go away and then come
back after they finished their packs loaded course and they saw a return of symptoms,
interestingly that same percentage was also seen in the control group and those who
don't who didn't take packs of it at all, which suggests that it's not actually the
medication that's causing that, but rather a characteristic of the virus. So for
some people, they actually experience this kind of bi modal viral experience when
they get covid 19. So we don't actually think at least based on the data that we
have right now that the packs loaded is actually causing that rebound. It's just
something that can happen when you have Covid. But particularly now that so many
more people are taking packs a little bit and we have such wide availability of antigen
tests. We have a lot more people regularly testing and seeing their viral load to
go away and then come back. So I wouldn't worry that the Paxil bit is causing it.
We have also specifically looked to see if there's any resistance being developed
in that population to the medication. And we're not seeing that either. Um so there
is uh as far as the evidence around it, there's a 90% reduction in severe disease
for those who are at risk of severe disease. I. E. those who are over 65 with underlying
conditions or who are immuno suppressed, particularly when you're looking at under
vaccinated people. So people who are not up to date in their vaccines. When you look
at people who are up to date on their vaccines, we see a 52% reduction in severe
disease, but it loses its statistical significance. So that means that that outcome
is so rare that it's hard to get enough data to make it statistically significant.
Takeaway from that Is that if you are up to date on your vaccines and you have a
high functioning immune system, um, an immune system that's functioning normally.
The probability is severely so low that it's not entirely clear that the is needed.
It's not hurting you though. So it's very reasonable to get it. But if you're up
to date on your vaccines As critical to get it. But if you're not or if you're immuno
suppressed, it's really, really important to take that medication because we know
that you can't mount an adequate response to COVID-19 on your own and we can see
severe disease in under vaccinated folks or folks whose immune systems are not functioning
properly, which includes people who have have a recent diagnosis of cancer or who
are undergoing them. Another good question on treatment. Oh, and as far as dosing
schedules. So there are not any active studies that I'm aware of looking at extending
the Paxil, of course the there's definitely talk about it. Um to see if we could
get rid of the COVID-19 rebound. But the primary reason why that's not happening
right now is that when we are seeing people rebound we don't see severe disease.
So in all of those cases that we're tracking now people who have had rebound disease
we're not seeing them get hospitalized and die. And that's really the primary goal
of is to prevent severe disease. It's not to eradicate the virus ear nose. It's to
keep you from getting severely ill and it is still doing that. So right now we're
not seeing a lot of push to change the dosing schedule there. The next person asked
about pre exposure prophylaxis with monoclonal antibodies. The brand name for that
is you shell that we've talked about on this program before for immune suppressed
individuals. So the shell is a monoclonal antibody that can be given to people who
have immune suppression or underlying cancer therapy. And you actually take it as
an I. V. Infusion that you take every every six months. Um It is a really good uh
prophylaxis option for those high risk individuals. There are rare side effects associated
with it. So it's definitely something you want to talk to your doctor about. They
would have to prescribe it. Um And they can talk you through Through your unique
risk profile. But for those who are immuno suppressed COVID-19 is a very serious
disease. Um and has shown to be very effective at protecting that population. We
see an 82% reduction in any COVID-19 infection at all actually. So it's one of the
only things we have less that gets rid of any symptomatic disease. It does have some
risk factors associated with it though. So we don't recommend it for the general
population, but it is a good option for those who are immuno suppressed. And so if
you fall in that category, definitely talk to your doctor about it. So you do have
to reduce it every six months though. Um This next person asked about the ingredients
in the Nova vaccine, noting that they couldn't find them online. Um and they asked
particularly about if there were things like aluminum formaldehyde or anything like
that in the vaccines. So where to find this information online. The nova vax, all
of the vaccine formulations actually can be found from the CDC website. So you go
to CDC dot gov slash coronavirus. There's a part where you can select the vaccines
and then they actually published the ingredients list for all of those vaccines.
But for noah, that's in particular because that was the question here. They have
the spike protein. So it's the protein of the coronavirus, but not the virus itself.
So it can't give you covid 19. It has lipids or fats, it has what's called an adjuvant
which is designed to stimulate your immune system. It's actually made out of soap,
bark extract and then there's some salt, some sugars and water. And that's the Novavax
vaccine. It doesn't have any cells, it doesn't have any metals, it doesn't have any
preservatives like formaldehyde. Um or or any of those other ones that kind of get
people stressed out about vaccines. None of those are in there. So sugar, salt, fat,
water and this bark extract and a spike protein. That's all that's in nova vax. Just
since I know people are probably also paying attention for the other vaccines. There's
also not any metals or or cells in the other vaccines, there's also not any preservatives
in the other vaccines, the M. RNA vaccines. But you can look at the detailed ingredient
list online if you are interested and I'm sure we can link it from our facebook as
well. A couple other quick questions. One other one was about treatment. So how do
you decide to use antivirals or monoclonal antibodies to treat Koven? So the first
thing you look at is the risk profile of the person. Do you qualify for treatment?
Um so you have to be at high risk of severe disease? And that means you're over 65
or you're under 65 and have underlying conditions or your immuno suppressed if you're
immuno suppressed as we talked about, you qualify for treatment uh generally uh we
will will go forward with getting that population treatment faster than just about
anybody else because it's so critical for them to get it. If you're not immuno suppressed
and you have a high functioning immune system and you're up to date on your vaccines.
You may or may not be able to access treatment based on how much treatment and how
many doctor visits we have available here. The primary reason for that is because
you are so unlikely to have severe disease. Now you do still technically meet eu
a qualification and so it's very reasonable to call. But if you're finding you're
having trouble getting through please know that your vaccine is providing you good
protection. But in order to fall in that category you do have to be boosted if you're
under 65 have had both boosters. So four doses if you're over 65. Otherwise we strongly
recommend access and treatment for deciding between the treatments. So pax is an
oral medication which means that it's generally preferred by most folks compared
to the monoclonal antibodies which are generally an I. V. Infusion. Um but not everybody
qualifies to get you have to have had symptom onset in the last five days to get
monoclonal antibodies that is extended seven days. So if you're a little bit outside
of the window you could potentially still get monoclonal antibodies. And for some
folks there are medication contraindications for. And so in that group we might move
to monoclonal. There's also more data on monoclonal safety in pregnant people. And
so when we're treating pregnant folks, we usually move to monoclonal. So that's a
little bit about how we decide and last but not least. The last question I asked
since we've said that um, that be a five, the home crowd variance, sub variants circulating
right now can avoid antibodies. Why would you bother to get a booster? So two good
reasons. One is that even though the A five is better at avoiding immunity from vaccination
and prior infection than anything that's come before. Still being vaccinated gives
you a 50% reduction in your chance of getting covid. Um, so you're still 50% less
likely to get covid. If you're up to date on your vaccines then if you haven't, but
it's not 100% it's not the 95 98% reduction that we saw before and since that's a
change, we talk about it, but it still does reduce your risk of getting covid. But
also importantly, getting a booster reduces your risk of severe disease. Um, so that
and that in order to maintain that protection against severe disease, particularly
for those over 65, we need all four doses. So two boosters for that group. Um, we,
well, we thankfully rarely see severe disease in younger populations. We do still
see it, unfortunately just lost someone in in Crown County's community who was in
his thirties and didn't have underlying conditions. And so it's still really important
to get that protection against severe disease that comes from getting your booster.
So three doses for all of us for if you're over 65 or suppressed with that. I'm happy
to take any additional questions from our commissioners.
I have one more if you don't mind. Doctor Barry. Um, I like many people I seem to
know right now. I have a cold and I'm testing every day and but
it's it's lingering. So you know, you have a new step five tests in the last five
days and masking when I um endorse with folks is like, how would you recommend people
deal with with colds? You know, just my concern of course is that I could be getting
negative results but eventually returned positive. So trying to be really cautious.
Um, and and staying home to some degree to. But what's your recommendation for folks
who have cold right now? Yeah. So there's, there are of course lots of other viruses
that circulate, but it's hard to know, especially given that you can test negative
in the beginning what you're working with. So the most important thing to the extent
that it's possible in your work is if you are sick is to stay home um and work from
home if you can or you know, if you're sick enough and take a sick day. Now we struggle
encourage employers to make sure that six days are available, but we know that they're
not available for everyone. Um, and so if you do need to go into work while you're
still symptomatic. We recommend testing before you go and wearing a mask because
you're symptomatic either, even if you test negative, you still have something that
you'd rather your coworkers. Not yet. Um, and wearing a mask and reduce transmission
of other things as far as how frequently to test. Generally, we recommend if your
symptoms are lingering to test again up to three times beyond three times, you probably
really don't have covid and have something else. You don't have to keep using. Tests
are kind of swabbing your nose, but do stay home while you're symptomatic, if you
can and mask while you're symptomatic, if you can't, if you do all that, you're unlikely
to spread that to anyone else. Would that be the first three days of the cold day
or spaced out? Generally first three days you should do it. Um, if you want to keep
testing beyond that, that's perfectly reasonable. But for most folks, you're gonna
catch it in the first three days of symptoms. If you test 24 hours apart, don't test
back to that same day, that won't get you the same bang for your buck. But if you
test day over day and your three negatives in your really unlikely to have covid
after that. Okay, ordered, um, more tests from the say yes to the past site and they
arrived the next day. so yeah they still have plenty of vantage and tests if you're
running low in your house, go ahead and order some um It's important to have them
around. Yeah any other questions for dr barry this morning?
Mark Willie. Any questions anyone? Okay thanks. Dr Berry
Willie. Do you have anything you want to update us on or just remind us about the
whole county picnic again? You read my mind. I have two quick things and the first
is a reminder that the county picnic is coming up in less than two weeks now we're
very excited for that. We already talked about what the picnic is and what it does.
We're gonna have a series of presentations um that Saturday on the 28th. A big art
and folks are encouraged to come and pick up for the world's famous free corn from
the all county picnic and pick up the free corn and attend the presentation and then
have a picnic in place in your neighborhood the following day. On sunday the 21st.
So you are encouraged to go to the production Alliance website. They have all the
information including I had to sign up for a presentation for your free corn. Get
in contact with us here at D. E. M. If you have any questions that otherwise was
really excited to to see some folks out there on saturday and to hear about how your
picnics go um on sunday and the other quick thing we had a little bit of a warm snap
this past weekend. Um, we didn't push any sort of cooling facilities for this most
recent warm weather. I'm just as a reminder for folks who are interested in those
kind of determinations. We use a metric called the National Weather Service heat
Risk and that's publicly available. And so I really encourage folks and if you're
interested in that you can google nws heat risk. And there is a page that shows you
the heat risk for the entire continent. Us with the new metric, they've developed,
help us better understand the risk during warm weather events until go and check
that out. We didn't rise to the same level of heat risk as we did during the past
warm weather event. Certainly nowhere near close to the heat dome from last year,
but we keep an eye on that metric pretty closely now that it's been developed. We
look at that throughout the summer with our partners in environmental, public health
and public health. Um, I just want to make folks aware of that resources. They have
any questions and as always feel free to reach out to us and if you need more information
other than that at the end of my report and I can take questions if there are
yeah. A comment that we, my, my wife did set up sign up for free in prep corn corn
delivery. So we're gonna, we're gonna reach out and make sure we have a neighborhood
plan out in the sticks where we live and I just want to reiterate, I think you told
me us this during the heat does, but if it's really hot outside, you should close
your windows right, open them up when it's cold. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You at night,
once it cools down, open up all your windows, let that cool air in. Then once it's
warmer outside than it is inside, close your windows and close your blinds. So you
don't let the warm air in, you don't let the sun in and that the insulation in your
home will keep that cool air in. And that was one of the things that made the heat
domes so dangerous though, was that it wasn't really cooling down that much at night.
There's a big difference between letting 60 degree air into your home and that really
working to cool it and letting 75 degree air in your homeland. Still pretty darn
warm. So um, there are some tips and tricks for maintaining a cooler home without
air conditioning that we put out a couple of times before I believe we have it up
our website. If not, I'll make sure we get that up here shortly before the next event,
but otherwise, thank you for signing up. Um, let me know how your neighborhood picnic
goes. Even you mentioned you're out mistakes. Um it still is possible and it's really
important to even in rural communities go and meet your neighbors. I know you're
not on top of each other like you might be in a more urban area, but it's still important
negative les on that. All right, thank you. Thanks.
Um So we have an executive session right at 10 30. You want to take a little break
and then come back at 10 30 I'll come back and then you guys go in executive session
and I'll do the sign off for us. We have to have we
have to have a quorum to go into executive. Okay.
Is that what you were saying? Kate. Yeah. Okay. Uh see you back here at 10:30
recess until 10:30
recording stopped.
Your camera's still on Cape
recording in progress. Okay. It looks like my phone now says 10 30 80
captures up and running. So I'll call us back into order and we are going to immediately
go into executive session with our county administrator. Chief Civil deputy prosecuting
attorney, Deputy prosecuting Attorney. Department of Community Development Director.
Department of Community Development Planning Manager and Department of Community
Development. Associate planning regarding potential litigation exemption is outlined
in the open public meetings. Act R C W 42.30 dot 1 10 parentheses one parentheses.
I were going in at 10 30 will be coming out at 11
15. All right. All right. You're free to hop off back here. I will
know that I put a potential public comment on here just in case there was a motion
after this. Okay, thanks kevin, Recording stopped.
Will you be extending then? Yeah, Recording in progress.
Okay, I am coming out of executive session and I'm going to extend for 20
minutes with the county administrator. Chief civil deputy prosecuting attorney, Civil
deputy prosecuting attorney, Department of Community Development Director, Department
of Community Development Planning Manager and Department Department of Community
Development Associate planner regarding potentially litigation exemption is outlined
in the Open Public Meetings Act R C W 42.30 dot 1 10 parentheses one parentheses.
I am going back in at 11 16 and will be coming out
at 1136. Alright, thank you.
Recording stopped
recording in progress.
Mhm Are we there? Are we Okay? Yeah, I'm extending So
I am coming out of executive session and going back in for another 10 minutes with
with the county administrator. Chief Civil Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Civil Civil
Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Department of Community Development Director, Department
of Community Development Planning Manager and Department of Community Development
Associate planner regarding potential litigation exemption as outlined in the Open
Public Meetings Act R c W 42.30 dot 1 10 parentheses one parentheses. I I
am looking at the computer clock. I am I'm going back in at 11:37 and we'll come
back out at 11:47. Alright, thank you.
Recording stopped
and you'll be extending. Yeah. Ready when you are baby is not
running for me yet. Oh there it goes. Okay. I am coming out of executive session
to extend again and I am an executive session with the county administrator, the
chief civil deputy prosecuting attorney, the civil deputy prosecuting attorney, the
Department of Community Development Director, the Department of Community Development
Planning Manager and Department of Community Development Associate planner regard
potential litigation exemption is outlined in the Open Public meetings act R C W
42.30 dot 1 10 parentheses one parentheses. I I'm coming out at 11 48 and I am going
to just say we're gonna be back in there until noon so I will be back at noon. All
right thank you.
Gotcha. I have put on a v capture
I'll change my name.
Okay I'm coming out of executive session and we will not be extending. Hold on a
second. I'm sorry Heidi. Recording in progress can you say that again? I'm coming
out of executive session. We're all coming out of executive session and we are not
extending or taking action so we are going to recess for the noon hour and we
will be back at 1 30. Alright I just brought kate over a little late but she heard
everything she was present. So thank you.
Recording stopped.
We gotcha. Great to go to the upper. Upper right and
that I'm just waiting for there's two clubs running in the courthouse and wait for
the wait for the bill. Well it won't go off at 1:30 so I'm gonna wait for it on my
iPhone that
I'm trying to bring over Catherine Cortez. Um she'll have to accept the promotion
to Panelist. So Catherine, if you're listening oh there she goes And uh I'll go ahead
and well we have about 45 seconds and then I'll turn the zoom recording on. Sounds
good. How's everyone doing? Good thanks.
Rather be out in the forest right
Lady who's with you? Hi Al he thought we were gonna be in person and I said well
just come sit with me. Sorry about that. Al
I should have told you my dad. Okay. Yeah
Okay so it's 1:30 on at least all the clocks now. So I'll call us back to order and
we're starting off this afternoon with a workshop on county forest
stewardship in Jefferson County. And um as many now we've been talking about this
issue a lot over the last few months and are working now to come up with a kind of
a plan our own plan for what we'd like to see done with forests in east Jefferson
County primarily on county owned forest lands and also on um some D. N. R.
Managed state forest lands primarily the state forest Lord lands or state forest
transfer trust lands called both things and very circle. So um with us this afternoon
is Mallory Wisenheimer who is our we call her our Forester, she's our Forester and
she's done some forestry work with Jefferson County actively over the last few years.
And so Mallory I'll let you kick it off.
Thanks Heidi. Uh yeah so I'm not sure what will be most helpful today. Um I
thought because there have been a lot of questions I wanted to bring on the advisors
that I recruited three years ago when I started working for the county. And so my
Cronin is here, he's been a man has been the biggest mentor to me and getting into
this. Um and I think he um he also worked on some of these projects a lot longer.
Um Ross Goodwin who's been Cnr forest practices and now it's D. O. R. For I don't
know how long, I won't I won't call out times and then um I'll like them whose conservation
district manager um and uh Denise trainer who works for an N. R. G. As um Northwest
Natural Resources Group as um the executive director and help develop their carbon
program doing sustainable forestry and then Catherine whose research and um Ecologist
um that's with Olympic National Park now an international park and north cascades
and is working on this contract with me. So collectively we are all looking at how
we can invest manage jefferson County Forest and um I'm happy to discuss more on
how that goes but I really wanted because we have such a short time. I really wanted
to turn over time to my advisors um to let them speak um uh and and voice what they
think is important and just talk about their perspectives on this program as well
and Caroline. And I see Denise Prager is in the attendee list as well. I see you
and thank you. I'm just hoping we can drill down a little more on the purpose today.
You know, I have, I thought very distinctly of the two, you know, there's the County
of Lands which mary was hired and working with advisors to manage those. And then
there's the question of the D. N. R. Um state trust Lands and I just it would just
be helpful for me to understand a little bit better. So what what you and your advisors
present on Mallory that is specific to the work you've been doing with the county
or are you also tend to speak to kind of, are the other conversation we're having
around D. N. R. Or where they overlap And I just could be used in context. Yes. Excellent
questions. So, um for context for that, what my goal is with this contract, especially
with all of the questions coming up about TNR Lands um is to do an analysis of the
three different three different scenarios basically on jefferson County continuing
to manage just jefferson County Lands, what that looks like in a five year projection
and longer range um management objectives, uh to look at financials, um, harvest
management, ecological management, all of that. To give you kind of a trajectory
there a trajectory on mixed um jefferson County lands and acquiring somebody in our
lands and to look at what it literally looked like if we took back a lot of these
for all of these trust lands, because it seems like has been a big question. And
so my goal here is to give you at the county Commissioners and staff, um as much
information to make an informed decision and what the implications are and what um
potential scenarios are to um show you what your options are basically. Um
and uh my advisors here um have been thinking a lot of this through with me and and
have, you know, been advising me along the way on like what the implications are
on that. So I think that's my main goal and to give you that information by the end
of the year, that's my main contract that help answer. It does. Yes. Thank you.
And I see we have Denise with us now. So, um you know, one thing, I have a few specific
questions and kind of comments to make over the course of this conversation. And
I think one thing that we probably all had conversations with Mallory about or with
each other about is the idea of um creating a document that um summarizes a
review of the state and county owned forest in East jefferson County. And so that's
the lens with which we want to look at these three scenarios scenarios that Mallory
was just talking about to be strategic in terms of the lands that we decide that
we may want to take on and manage ourselves or may want to make management recommendations
to D. N. R. About longer rotations on some of the the county granted lands that they
managed for us now. Um And we'll also want to identify tracts
of forests that can be harvested um and be really clear about what what that means
in terms of both county owned lands and um state state managed lands. We have some
lands that will be coming over from the state to the county via partnership with
the jefferson Land trust and through the trust, land transfer lease process that
happened I think in 2009. And so those those I think it's about 100 and 20
160 acres three parcels to in the kuiper wildlife border one in the Towanda peninsula.
But we'll want those tracts of land considered in this mix too even though they're
kind of in a middle ground right now. Um Anyway, so
how do we want to do this today? What are there any other questions for Mallory out
of the gate here
matt. Do you want to say anything to kick us off in terms of parks rolling all of
this. No not much. People have questions.
So some of the lands that the county owns that Mallory's managed in the last couple
of years were parklands like Trailhead Park and Park. So that's
why um all three were actually all three were and and the R. C.
W. It also states that if you are asking for re conveyance they come to parks in
the county. So um that would be a huge question that required to be. Yeah by
the R. C. W. Yeah by state law and that is the model that has used. Um And you know
uh we've been discussing this in terms of the recreation value and jefferson county
and just looking at the trade off. So I think Megan ross can weigh in on this more
as well about, I don't know if you just want to chime in and talk about your views
on this? Well I could say that the D. N. R. Land that have been transferred
are there in the process of transplant transfer um Present quite a challenge for
jefferson county to manage D. N. R. Has the remaining remaining parcels of the D.
N. R. Seemed to me that can that they managed them quite adequately projection counties
benefit I think would be very difficult over the county to do that on their own without
the infrastructure that D. N. R. Has. And uh you know the lost revenue from less
efficient or more costly management would affect particularly the junior taxing districts.
And also the county in general
kind of consensus announces
right I'm wondering if others in your group. Mallory agree with my assessment that
the county taking on 15,000 acres or so. D. And our land will be less efficient for
the junior passing district and management of the land. Is that a consensus across
this group? I would concur with that as well. It's just I mean it's for one thing
a huge startup staff infrastructure uh equipment on board that you know and then
um you know uh er actually manages fairly efficiently from my you know my experience
and I think just the costs and general management costs would be up. And the types
of ecological ecological forestry of course are not revenue generating harvest. So
all those things taken in consideration it would be uh pretty tough uh bro
to take over all the lands.
Oh no I agree with both those guys. It's a big big task to take on and gonna be kind
of expensive startup and uh lots of implications. So it needs to be with that really
carefully
Catherine. It sounds like to me um Denise appears to be having some trouble with
her audio so she's trying to get back in by the phone. It sounds like and also I
just want to stay here at the outset that you know this is on me and that is half
an hour but we can go longer than half an hour. We're not, you know at a hard stop
there. I'll just say taking in. I mean I I chose these advisers from their different
backgrounds from um their backgrounds in ecology and forestry and Jefferson County
and with the community and specifically and I agree that um yeah the D. N. R.
Uh there were gonna lose revenue. There are other offsets. So I think it's just a
question of looking at what those trade offs are. Um And if that is a move that you
want to make. So
I mean one of the things we were talking about, one of the things that kids have
has done and I don't know the numbers on this, this is part of the question. Um And
the analysis I'm doing is they've brought in since they've transferred some of these
lands into parks, they've also brought in concessionaires that are bringing in money
and recreation on top of that. Um So there's you know, you know more camping and
matt and I have talked a lot about this and that should probably weigh in as well.
Um Thank you for reading here matt um to see like what what other
um trade offs there would be and from his management perspective because yeah we
talked a lot and he was so involved in the forest management of those three harvests
that I did.
Yeah I think I think spending a little bit of time on I mean they're re conveyance,
there are 15,000 acres of state forest transfer trust, um forests in Jefferson County.
But I think that the question is strategically which which of those acres or which
timber stands would make sense to be in more of a either a longer longer rotation
or a conservation status or maybe in a status that kind of straddles the two of maybe
it's part recreation and part forestry, but it's a mixed mixed management plan for
those. And that's kind of why I've heard kate say in some of our public discussions
is we need to be strategic. If we're asking for re conveyance of any stands of forest,
there needs to be a strategic reason, right that they're either has super high quality
plant community or um has really high value for recreation
because you know what we're doing now is gonna be forever right. I mean if we take
the way we're managing for us or we ask for certain timber stands to be re conveyed,
we're laying the groundwork for future opportunities in the county. But we don't
want to do that. Um wholesale. We want to be strategic about it. And that's kind
of what one of the reasons why we talked about updating this force for the future
report that was done 11 years ago um to revisit the analysis that was done of
the kind of the critical components of the various timber stands and some were targeted
for harvest and some were targeted for recreation at that time. And in some cases
they've either been harvested or they've been transferred. And so we kind of need
to take a look back at that report and then um then project forward and say strategically
which of these timber stands make sense for long term recreation for jefferson county.
Yeah. And I think that document is is important and it has um it's one of the key
documents to radio and um used in this analysis. And I think the key there is also
understanding what the forest management is needed on some of those what what the
recommendations are in recreation and just trying to do some cost analysis as well.
And um what are we doing? Like what is the next plan with the N. R. And how does
that also link into what county lands worker we're protecting new management. So
it's it's a combined it's looking at financial, looking at harvest management and
looking at recreational and ecological um So it's all of these pieces put together
and taking both county and in our lands and just figuring out what is the best combination
and trying to run those scenarios. Kate's got her hand up again. Yeah, a couple of
questions and things we've touched on there. They're related but I'm not sure how
to tie them together. 1st. I'm curious. Um Does the force for the future report need
to be updated has much changed in the last 11 years um that would need to be considered
and included in a more thorough analysis like kind of a current stands. Um
So anyone who is very familiar with that might get you involved in the drafting of
that, Just curious if anyone has an opinion. Yes. I think there's a great risk in
trying to update that without adequate representation. And I think that probably
this time if it is done that BNR be involved directly, um after all, it's um, it
addresses the future of their management. I'm not sure how much attention it got
from being our in the british place because it was done without their involvement.
Um So I think there's a great risk to continuing with that or to update that without
adequate representation from all because obviously the environmental community would
would be quite involved. And uh to me it would be important that other voices be
heard, particularly that of B and R. And other foresters. Okay. And quite frankly,
the junior tax taxing districts, representatives from, you know, the various groups.
Thank you. Um and this is an question that maybe imagine none of us can answer. But
I'm curious folks, thoughts on this. Um you know, I have generally been less
interested in advance, um just less interested in more interesting, not less interested
than anyone else, but uh for the same reasons that you mentioned. Um you know that
we just aren't a scale, I worry about the chinese capacity to be able to take on
management of a lot more uh forest land in the guise of parks and so I think
that's less interesting to me, but I am interested in being able to explore different
management systems and just curious folks sense of kind of DNR's willingness to to
consider um and work with us on coming up with different management styles.
I think that's a worthy goal to approach D. N. R. About less intensive management
on sensitive sites rather than necessarily re conveyance for park purposes. Many
of these sites can serve multiple functions in providing recreation and in income
with maybe a change in intensity of management, even age management may not be appropriate
for many of these parcels as as a global preservation might not be uh some sort of
a compromise there in the past. D. N. R. Has been unable to do that, but I'm not
really privy to what they're doing now.
I think it's worth worth the first line to go to that direction. That's gonna be
a lot easier to have them as allies and partners in this, they do manage a lot more
lands. And um we don't have it in our wheelhouse to be managing a lot of the lands
um uh in county. So having a better partnership seems like a
very good way to go forward. But again analysis get more answers to get more information
on what the implications are on this, on all sides.
Yeah, I would say it's worth the question for sure. Again, um as you all are probably
where the Supreme Court state Supreme Court upheld the trust mandate responsibilities,
so there's that to consider um and uh you know, I'm sure locally the local folks
would be interested in those discussions, but at the state level, I don't know how
much, again, how much capacity there is to do, you know, separate prescriptions for
different blocks, you know, and if that becomes a precedent setting and you know,
they have a ripple effect through the agency,
it seems like in terms of that decision there are many interpretations of it, right?
So it's um yeah, there's a lot of spin from the environmental community on that for
sure, you know, um basically, but my understanding is that the producer producer
responsibility is is still in place, how that occurs. Might be up for debate.
Thanks.
So
has her hand up Denise is a muted, so she should be able to talk Hi, can you
hear me? Oh wow! Technology. Um The one thing I did, I wanted to contribute before
I um overwhelmed by technology again uh is the the my role in this and kind
of for the record is to do an analysis of um our potential carbon
um programs that might augment um the existing forest management plan um for revenue
um and to see if that's an option, it is a tricky business having designed a carbon
forest offset program in my my previous life as energy and Nrg's executive director,
um It Mallory thought it would be in our best interest as a county to do a careful
analysis before we kind of jumped in and thought this was an option um eligibility
is a big deal for in in your case, small forest landowners. Um And so it's gonna
be an enjoyable project, see where we might be eligible, but in our mind, this is
an augmented of the current um current forest management plan and and I looked through
the presentation that nrg did for you Seth and Kirk and that was a really good demonstration
about how longer rotations are doing the job of carbon, What we're not doing right
now is taking credit for it monetarily and so that's that's that's a different thing.
But our forest currently based on Mallory's approach to forestry already are doing
its bit for the environment. We are, we are on the longer rotation scheme, we are
doing a good job, so it's not, it's not that you're not doing your bit, it's that
how do you get kind of credit for it in a in a monetary way, potentially, but again,
this is an augmentation and a project to see what you might be eligible for eligible
for and or maybe it's there's a lot of ways to approach getting quote credit whether
it be monetary or just recognition for the work you're already doing. Um there's
a lot of ways to approach carbon sequestration in forestry. So and then we'll be
Mallory will be making a presentation to you or provided this information based on
my analysis of current programs and historic programs that might be uh in line with
what you're, what she's doing already. That's my speech. I'm on the record now. Mallory,
I follow up on that real quick. I love the Denise the way you're talking about, I
guess, you know, additionally in a different way and I guess what I'm interested
in or where my mind's going right now about um working with D. N. R. Is coming up.
I mean they've got this carbon offset project that they don't really seem to know
what to do with and I'm wondering if we can't structural request for a different
management scheme in jefferson County land, some or all of them around. You know,
a little bit of capturing the carbon offset program through longer rotation cycles
and just kind of a little bit of a couple of different things going forward. And
I'm I guess my my hope out of out of Mallory and everyone else's analysis is that
we, we kind of have ammunition to be able to say this is a program which is going
to, you know, create resilience in our forest, create economic and recreational opportunities
and still keep the junior taxing districts hole through this harvest plus this carbon
offset plus fill in the blank. So I guess I just state my pie in the sky aspiration
for the,
I wouldn't call it pie in the sky. Um, there are, you can search for carbon offset
programs, voluntary carbon offset programs that small forest landowners have participated
and have received remuneration for. So it's not, it's not a pipe dream. It's just
a small club and it's getting your program through this keyhole,
um, without disrupting your, the kind of structure that you already have with the
other demands that your force might have is the tricky bit right because there are
all these benefits that quote force provide and it's hard not to want to lose those
benefits to participate in the carbon program. Right. Um, so I hear you there is
a, that's the fun part of figuring out where we fit what lands fit not all lands
that you guys operate in will fit inside the carbon program. So it might be proportional.
Um, or maybe future. There may be, you know, things you haven't thought long rotations
is one way of sequestering carbon longer rotations. Other is replanting, there's
a, there's a lot of different ways that carbon can potentially play a role to benefit
your healthy force going forward. Does that help? Totally? Yeah.
Um, so in terms of how we structure, you know, a project together. Um, and the work
that you're gonna do Mallory? I mean it seems like it would. Are you are you envisioning
um that your group of advisers will be the technical advisory group for this work.
Okay. Yes. And and they have been um all along the project has gone
on for three years because of their health and assistance and guidance um because
it is a technical advisory group and not formal. Um Catherine and um Denise are no
contractors on there because they're actually doing work on this analysis with me
um And their skill sets are so invaluable and like just come in because this is now
more important to have you your skill sets within the county. Right. More official
role. Okay. I see your hand up. Yeah just if we could be more clear about this like
even the project you just asked about Heidi um it would be helpful for me to understand
it was still so in that case we're talking specifically about the county of lands,
I don't feel like we've made any decisions about the other the D. N. R. Kind of our
process for that. Um So was how was your question intended as for the assessment
of county Lands And is that what you were answering Mallory? Are we talking about
a broader scope now I'm imagining it includes the State Forest Transfer Trust lands
a review of those and and recommending if any of them strategically makes sense to
be in some kind of other status or longer rotation or other management. Not not the
whole swath but you know if there are any strategic tracks. Yeah that line up with
county um lands management as well. Just we're doing an analysis of both and we've
already done a lot of the county land. So it is looking at now future management
for them. But also what does this look like and starting to incorporate some d in
Ireland that are appropriate for conservation for harvesting for. And we're only
doing selective management. Um You know it's uh this is ecological silver culture.
So we are this is triple bottom line all of that. Um But trying to find one of the
best fit. Okay I was not aware that that um that we have decided
that that scope would be added um your contract. So I would just love to to kind
of I guess here a little bit more about your vision for that and your your sense
of kind of your capacity to take that on. And um just because it's it's not something
that I have been privy to yet. Oh sure. Yeah. And I guess that was I think there's
been back and forth on communicating, this is this has been what I've been building
towards. So it we've had this question kind of looming about how D. N. R. Interacts
with county lands um and so especially with all the questions coming, this was what
um if you look at the scope of work, the forest analysis. The first section is really
what Catherine and I wanted to do is to create this comprehensive map that we've
been talking about for I don't know, Katherine for years for years a while now of
like what is the most strategic move um for the county to make in forest land management
And um I because of the work I've done so far with the county, I have the data now
for like what it takes to manage county lands. Um So it's this question of moving
forward, how do we incorporate and how much do we want to incorporate and work with?
D. N. R. Just what does that look like? So uh it is in the wheelhouse, it has been
built into this contract. Um And so this was what I had planned on. Um I don't know
Catherine, do you want to weigh in on on your and it aligns with Katherine's work?
So I think Kathryn should weigh in and answer part part of this to actually available.
She's there. Catherine thanks,
we'll do Catherine matt and then Peter. Okay I think this kind of some of our original
thoughts on frost and microwave and initially we have questions about um you know
where where these properties are and how to development out of to provide the commissioners
with information about making choices among various trade offs in terms of forest
management conservation and other values that we are with the stands provided. I
think we'll post that points to be able to build up the previous information through
the Forest Future report, but really kind of take that significant steps to be able
to give you information that you need.
Man, I was just gonna weigh in really quickly and a couple of things. One is that
when the when the scope is made, I think it would be worth thinking long term about
park values and open space values and if there is a recommendation in there in the
future uh to act on that, it does create great benefits for our citizens, health,
safety and the economy. A lot of people feel that the recreation economy can be more
sustainable, meaning the extraction economy. Recreation is also um promotes the environment
as we have seen in all of our parts where these projects are already taking place.
One thing I also would point out as my final point is that gives lake was doubled
in size using D. N. R. Exchange and kind of a complicated exchange and we did a sustainable
forest project on a former D. N. R. Parcel that both generated revenue and greatly
increase the benefits for humans and for the environment. So it's a good president,
their success story. That's it. Thanks for sharing that matt, peter, I see your hand
up, you mean that.
Mhm. So, good gives Lake is a good example of a project that n
W I took the lead on with the county commissioners and worked with them very closely
on with matt and other people to make that happen. And um I think that The forest
for the future that I worked on with Mike Cronin and Matt and County Commissioners
and others 10 years ago that served its purpose which was to basically D. N. R. Had
thrown the ball back to the county said well if you don't want us to do this huge
land exchange and get rid of all this land, the D. N. R. O. And in East Jefferson
County come up with something else and show us what you want to do. So it's basically
a map that says these are high priorities for conservation, these blocks of D. N.
R. Land or high priority for continued timber production. And since then that Forest
report really needs to be updated with new some new data layers we have on you know
the globally rare forest communities, some areas have been cut, there's all sorts
of changes but that's a good bare bones for what needs to happen. Um for the D. N.
R. Lands in East Jefferson County and great people on this committee. Now I'm glad
Mike is still willing to participate. But I think that if this committee is gonna
address D. And our lands In East Jefferson both school trust and forest board and
the other trust that the advisory committee that's involved been involved with Mallory
Moore on the forest practices in the county land needs to be expanded and um to include
myself as a biologist, the conservation biologist and someone who's been working
out here on this kind of stuff for 20 years. And I got to my own horn and say one
of the things I bring is a very detailed knowledge of how all these complicated mechanisms
and conservation mechanisms work like TLT re conveyance. Um You know the other tools
that D. N. R. Has available and also a pretty good knowledge of the landscape. Um
And so I definitely would like to be involved on the advisory committee if it expands
to basically and update of the forest for the future plan for the county. And so
I'll just leave it at that. Thanks Peter. I see Kathryn's hand went back up
Catherine. Was that I saw your hand go back up. You're gonna need to un mute.
Yeah. Okay
so we want to talk about our next steps.
I know Mallory's got um she's on contract and she's expanding and rejiggering the
work plan there a little bit. Do you want to talk about that Mallory and your timeline?
Yeah. Yeah so I think doing this analysis um our goal is to have the analysis
done by the end of the year. Um That would include um you know the financial analysis
of of what looking at the future, Deana parcels and Peter's correct. I mean I think
as an advisor that's that's great. Um Because it is the the R. D. In our lands. He
did do this work along with my corona and Mike has been a key advisor for a long
time so um to have those resources there. But it is I want you know a well rounded
group to be informing this um that has experience across the board um you know matt
al Denise everyone here brings more information to the table. And so um Catherine
and I are moving forward with looking at both the D. N. R. Lands and the Jefferson
County lands. Um Looking at the projected um harvest schedule and what D. N. A. Is
planning to do on these lands. I'm looking at the ecological value because that's
what a lot of Katherine's and ecologists, she has a PhD in ecology. This like looking
at sensitive habitat is her specialty actually computer. Um But she's going to help
really look at the ecology side of these properties with me and look at, help us
look at strategically looking at the jefferson candy land along with the in our lands
and where those sensitive sites are and where we can have the most impact and looking
at like the parks, what the recreational value is. Um Is that something And and this
is this is a larger project but we want to pull in some samples of just like let's
give a few scenarios. So obviously we can't do like a full analysis of every single
property, but a lot of that work has been done. So we're trying to um we've established
a few different criteria to figure out like how to review properties against each
other and figure out what's the best fit and look at the overall um landscape and
um in a more regional context and then um landing on advisers to look at um
the financial analysis and um way in like all of them, my grass
al that you all have longer experience here in county, seeing what's been happening
on the ground um and helping to ground truth us to see like are those calls that
we're making right on what we, what we're recommending with county, take back or
or leave. Um and then looking at um I mean, it's so it'll be the, just the Jefferson
County lands, this mixed land and and this is more of what I'm talking about, is
this mixed land is like figuring out which those key lands that we're gonna do this
middle of the road approach. What are those key lands that were recommending um seemed
like the best fit with given jefferson County's goals and then looking at the Rican
vance and just giving you some information about what the implications are of that.
Yeah, anyone mike you want to weigh in on that.
Yeah, I just, I just wanted to weigh in on the notion of a kind of a well rounded
committee. I think the advisory committee has been working together for a while and
that they're great and we have the power tools and expertise and brilliance to achieve
these goals. The other thing is that because this is a public, these are public lands
that doesn't ever, it doesn't ever stop us from people participating and reviewing
and providing opinions. So there there's even a wider range of people I want to bring
to the table when we talk about carbon and ecosystem services. And so so the notion
that it the current committee is a stopping point for advising is not true. It's
we will, I think all of us who serve on the advisory committee can pull pull Peter
pull people like theater, that's a lot of peace um uh to um to advise and consult.
So I think we are, I think this group is really open to break power coming broader
and outside of this. Um I plan on using lots of break power from the days of GNR
and carving so bigger the better, but they don't want to serve on the advisory of
any kind of thing. Just kind of brought up that motion for me when Peter was talking
so heads up. And I also think we need to outline kind of an architecture of
um like quarterly reports to the commissioners. And do we want do we want
one of us commissioners to be with you embedded with you guys or do we want to rotate
through um, as commissioners? And um, you know, it just, it feels like we have
to keep the public, public process going can be less regular. Not, you know, not
a monthly check in, but like we can, um, if one commissioner was participating with
the with the advisors group, then quarterly, maybe we can have updates to the group
to the entire board of county commissioners. And I just think we need to think a
little artfully about how we keep this above, above the fray to k to see your hand
back up. Yeah, I'm feeling a little behind the ball. Like something got rolling that
I wasn't aware was rolling. And so I'm trying to catch up here because I feel like
we haven't really, as a P. zero cc decided on a process and a scope and even the
questions that we're trying to get answered. Um, and maybe I'm singular in that and
and feeling like I'm I'm catching up here and not realizing that stuff was in the
works that I didn't know was in the works, but I think there's um, I know I would
like the opportunity that provide more input to, um, and, you know, part of that
Mallory and I've been trying to get together and, you know, just schedules and all
that, but I think I would like us to take a couple steps back and be as a commission
thinking about what is, what is the work we see that needs to be done here. One of
the questions asked and then and then run it through Mallory and a great group of
advisers to see where there's a match for for getting that work done be at the table.
And all of you know some of these questions that I don't think we have had a chance
to discuss as a commission yet. What we want the process of x. I think we need to
be um you know what we're something we're not talking about here but that is very
true that this is a very political uh discussion and you know many of you will be
protected from that in your roles as as professionals and natural resource managers
such but for the for the zero cc. It's very political and um so you know, and we
will we will take the hits accordingly. Um Maybe hopefully a few kudos in there too.
But you know, so what we need to have a say in um in the process, the questions that
are being asked uh information we're seeking etcetera. Absolutely. And I'll just
say in there that like my I see my role in this contract and the scope of work. It
is flexible. It's but what I was putting forward is this information gathering and
analysis to help you guys as a you all as a county commissioners make the most informed
decisions. Um So it's not necessarily making recommendations, it's information providing.
Um.
just so you have the information moving forward because I know I'm getting the backlash
of this as well of like all of these questions that are coming at you and we have
the data. We have all this data. So it's really coalescing it and making it in a
presentable way that is accessible to you that is accessible to the public. Yeah.
Thanks. I guess I just wanted to support what kate was saying. Just really get our
arms around what we're trying to do and and I'm wondering if it would be helpful.
I know I do recall this from the experience of the expanded contractor the updated
contract with Mallory and I'm wondering if it would be helpful to take a moment and
look through that spoke of work and really um set our baseline for what we expect
from this analysis to make sure we're on the same page about that first as a starting
point. Yeah. And I I thought we had all had conversations about Mallory's expanded
contract because we can't talk to each other. I I thought that kate and Mallory had
the chance to talk you know so this is a little bit of catching each other up. But
also I would like to figure out what the next step is to um like I see your hand
up. Yes. Um it strikes me that one of the things missing in any kind of long term
planning for forest lands is a prioritization of recreational value and that is probably
the one to address this. Um I am never sure how valuable any given parcel is in terms
of recreation and some sort of analysis of areas or regions that are short
of recreational force would certainly help to identify the those that maybe should
not be managed intensively and be managed either less intentionally or not at all.
And that would that would certainly help. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why it mounts
an advisory. That's why you're an advisory. That's why Katherine's and advisor. So
we have this so you can help pull this out. But I think actually coming up with a
prioritization is a great um great idea on this.
So it's a good next thing for us to do for a couple more minutes to look at mallory
scope with her contract. Sure. I've got it. I've got it available. You want me to
share my screen
that. Is that visible? Yeah, big enough. Yeah.
So in conversations I figured so I presented um this idea
of where I was going with the scope of work back in february, the county commissioners
and that was where this scope of work came from. That was that was what based on
advisers and the work that we had done so far. This was where I thought the next
steps were and why I made this proposal um with the more information that has come
out. I think your doctor this conversation, I would edit this again because I think
there's I think focusing more on just this analysis and having all hands on deck.
I'm just giving you an analysis and projections for management um to help you guys
make informed decisions is really the priority it feels like so that forest lands
analysis um the deliverables analysis of properties to focus focus on for near term
long term conservation, restoration management, cost analysis and includes prioritization
of high value of ecological and at risk sites and the D. N. R. Management cost benefit
analysis of county land management. So what are we looking at if we acquire some
of those lands and what are we looking at? Like giving up financially and taking
on? Um So that does that make sense in the forest lands analysis? I'm mostly trying
to look at cake because I don't know she's looked at this document. Okay approved
it. So. Yes. Well so I mean for example do do we want to consider full
recompense? Yeah that's that's a and pretty
massive you know I think I think giving you the information on what that would cost.
What the implications of that. I know I'm not necessarily going is supposed to be
making recommendations at this point but that is a very big move to do a full re
convenience and take back all the county lands. I think if you're considering that
approach I think a phase approach of at least taking on a little bit of D. N. R.
Lands and looking at the financials and doing phase approaches like what are the
pros and cons of this? Um It's much wiser move. I mean taking on all the D. N. R.
Lands D. In our house, all of their own staff. You have me part time and um and I
know parks it's re conveyance, it's gonna be coming back to park so matt can also
speak to um you know the management needs that we don't have in county to do that
at this point. So I think it's worth looking at what it would actually cost um and
what that would look like. But I seriously doubt that that is the route that I would
think the county would go. Yeah and I think I mean I think we talked about this mallory
when I sat with you and Denise is that it might just be good to analyze the timber
stands. Uh So we have the information. Yeah but not you know not
towards the end of a full re conveyance but so that in looking at every single timber
stand which is kind of what happened with the forest for the future report that um
we can ask those questions. Is this a recreational, you know is it is it important
for wildlife connectivity? Is it is an adjacent to another state or county recreation
land? So I think looking taking a glance at every track is important but I don't
think we're doing that with the end goal being full re conveyance but in terms of
the analysis I think it's important personally. I don't know if you what you guys
think about that catered right? I'm also pretty skeptical that cool re conveyance
is a viable option. So I just feel like it's a gigantic lift to prove a negative,
we're all short of already. So I'm I'm skeptical of the value. I know there's 1400
acres that a lot of folks are very interested in. Some of the older ones. I guess
I would probably prioritize the older forests in East Jefferson County. We're gonna
do analysis. I love deeper understanding of the the costs of you know recreational
management to you still need some place to park, you still need roads, you know,
and some of these these softer costs that you know the services the D. N. R. Is providing,
their management scheme are really of interest to me as well as things like um oh
I just drew a blank, sorry forgot what I was gonna say lots in the middle of the
city but I think this is the right track is to analyze this stuff and figure out,
I guess I'd love to have as part of this analysis, you know, kind of truth in these
these recommendations for D. N. R. To a data data driven hey if you do this you can
still make your 25% administration fee and you know everyone's been brought, you
know I would love to be able to present them with the package and I feel like that's
what D. N. R. Has been asking for is will tell us how you want us to do it. Um And
if we can present something that is a viable strategy that I I mean they're listening
at me so I guess that's my hope
and yeah cater Greg, have you guys had a chance to look at that force for the future
report because it has a set of um management options and personal characteristics
that were reviewed for each tract of D. In our land In the East Jefferson County.
So that's pretty clearly outlined in that report. And so we just don't know what's
changed in the last 11 years. Um and what's being forecasted
and so I think looking at the forecast for D. N. R. And then looking at what it cost
us to manage some of these lands and looking at the management needs of some of those
specific parcels and getting you the side by side analysis of what if jefferson takes
this personal um And what if we use it for partial recreation? What are the costs
of that? What is the revenue of that? Is there a forest management management that
needs to be done? What would be the cost and potential revenue from that and what
the flip side if it goes forward with just D. N. R. So just to give you a few key
parcels that like between matt and um mike and ross and Kathryn and I and you know
you know advisors that we I we earmark some properties and if we're working with
one of the county commissioners which we didn't answer this question yet but I think
it it would be great to have one county commissioner because this has been a struggle
with the contract for the last three years is like I know you all have a lot on your
plate and this is one project. Um but it would be great to have consistency in who
I'm talking to and who you know who we have to work with so that I'm relaying information
from my advisors as well and there's just consistency coming back and forth and how
we move the project forward.
Um Can I ask one specific question Mallory with lake in our some of our uh forestry
that we did last year. That was on the area that was part of the trust land transfer.
I think we're all big big supporters of the trust land transfer program. One of my
concerns is that after we transfer it in the conservation management is no management
at all and we ended up having to come in after the fact and do this. So you know
we need to not only plan what is our plan, but we actually have to continue to execute
it year after year. We've not really been regular about doing that I guess. I wonder
if you can talk about long term. Absolutely and that's
part of what the forest through feature. It identifies those ecological values and
have the stand types and that kind of thing. But it doesn't some of those are young
stands that um you know if we are taking them back from D. N. R. Uh they were commercially
planted and if we're if our values are changing like that D. N. R. Gibbs lake it
was perfect. It was right in that window 35 years old about where a commercial thinning
made sense. And now those trees will grow a lot better and we did this variable density
thinning with some gaps in it so that we can see how it's going to respond. So it
was So taking these properties back. It definitely needs to be this analysis of like
what management needs would also be appropriate over the next 50 years. You know
and I'm going to do a closer analysis of this like next five years. What what are
we needing immediately in this budget for? But giving a broad range you on a few
key parcels of like look this is what I'm projecting that you're gonna need to plan
for In the next 50 years just so you have that in mind and like how we're if we're
going to do for a stewardship you actually have to do for a stewardship conservation
is one thing but climate-change adaptation. We don't know what's going on with these
forests. And so taking an active management role and like how do we help these forests
be healthy, thriving and meet multiple goals for the county is really the big question
and that's why I have all these advisors.
Um So back to that kind of scope of the re conveyance question. Um could be coming
at it in a like kind of setting some some criteria for looking at parcels that we
think for identifying parcels that we think might be suitable for re conveyance and
doing analysis on that on those um personal so that we're not doing it on all D.
N. R. Which you know, but instead really identifying which ones might lend themselves
to recon vance. Um Because I don't I don't think there's a there is an interest in
in full re conveyance. Sure. So that's great. I mean this is that's helpful to know
because I wasn't sure if that was a really serious um objective for the commissioners
but no we won't go that road and we'll just look at the parcel. So in my mind and
his advisors came in it would be looking at recreational value of parks like are
there other parks in the area and that I would turn to match. So of course and like
what did he see? Um the ecological value? Um So turning to Catherine. Um
And what are the ecological values of it are other pieces that have a high ecological
conservation. Looking to myself and mike uh for forest management needs, what is
the state of the forest? If it's a young like 25 year old forest probably gonna need
a little bit of management if it was commercially planted as a dog first. And um
because it's gonna keep getting denser. Uh and
management um that list I would get there a high potential for participation in a
carbon program. Absolutely. And another one would be contiguous with other county
owned land. Absolutely. And yes, and I think that's part of what Catherine and I
have been really interested in this larger map is like looking at, I think you were
involved in that um Ag lands map from land works a while ago that has stuck in my
head as like showing the broader trends across um county or state lines, but
like where are their richer, more ecological forest that we're looking at and where
is there more public land? And how do we want to connect that? Um And so yes that
is another aspect, Thank you for calling that out. Another thing that I I think that
sometimes we give short shrift to is that the different lens that different organizations
are using in their management practices. I mean I know D. N. R. Is looking at, you
know the whole olympic region, they're not looking at jefferson county so often decisions
aren't clear based on looking at county borders and they're they're more clear looking
at the larger map. But I guess I just want to make sure this lens of perception is
considered as you go through this. Yeah. Um Yeah I think so. I think
that's why we have I think that just comes back to the advisors against and making
sure that anything that I'm pushing forward is reviewed in that way.
Uh Yeah maybe you could expand on that great cause for my my
experience I know that when they do sail planning they try to balance it between
the counties so there you know you're not one year zero revenue and yeah so I know
they do look at it somewhat specifically but I yes I understand that you have to
look at it as a whole to I guess I mean even that these different ways that D. N.
R. Is looking at it to give regular revenue to taxing districts. It's just a bunch
of different ways of looking at it. I guess I'm just I'm just counseling a breadth
of of. Yeah so I guess I would reiterate what mike said earlier is that in these
discussions as they occur is to at least invite D. N. R. To the table and maybe at
the local level like the region level or even more locally at the um district level
and uh and maybe they don't participate in all the meetings but they do have a lot
of the information you're looking for already at hand. So like inventory ages, all
that stuff. So I saw Kathryn's hand go up and Denise's hand go up and then Peter's
hand go up and we should probably allocate ourselves another 20 minutes max
trying to be rain later
on for the values data transparency. And we have access to quite a bit of the data
that they're using sometimes a little bit out of sync with their our latest planning.
But you know as I pointed out the more we incorporate in our staff and this exercise,
the most latest data says we'll have access to. Um And then you know in terms of
your thought about the way that um sales are allocated among you know east versus
west Jefferson County, you know certain thought that has positive and negative aspects
in terms of the distribution of the trust lands and the ability of D. N. R. To satisfy
the the county county scale um requirements to meet a taxing district funding
but that that could result in really different distributions of conservation value,
forests, characteristics across the county that has pluses and minuses that we can
include in our analysis
Denise. Did you have something you want to add? Yeah I was thinking about that criteria
of lenses that people were talking about and I would add um people's concerns about
fire danger um whether they're how real they are particularly, but it is a concern
people have but I think it needs to be addressed in our analysis um because especially
when it goes to kind of public review? Um So that's what I would add. The other one
is there are not to add sprinkles to the top of the cupcake, but one of the fun analysis
components of doing for particular lands, you can do a deep dive especially around
kind of cabinets work about potential other kinds of ecosystem services um and in
climate adaptation components. Um There are ways of communicating with funders that
um speak to a you know, not only do we have to have a healthy force, we have to have
a healthy force that fits in a kind of climate adaptive extreme weather pattern changes.
Um And so those are kind of more lenses that I'm really interested in um and have
been for a lot of years, especially when I was working at. Nrg so those are two other
lenses kate, I would add to your list. Yeah, and the only ones that I've heard that
weren't on the original force for the future list of considerations were climates
not there, and fire is not there, But all these other things like adjacent ownership
and fish and wildlife habitat and recreational, they're all on that list. So reviewing
that list as a starting point would be a good thing. Yeah, peter is your hand up?
Yeah, is it possible to share screen? I'll try do that, I want to share amount
now. Um So who's ever insure screen? Okay you just hit it at the bottom of your screen.
Okay Try it again.
Okay can you guys see that? Great so this is kind of the nuts and bolts the of
the forest for the future report. And real simply what we did was look at every block
of D. In our land with a lot of help from mike Cronin because he knows every block
really well. And look at the timber production potential, the conservation potential,
recreation and and make recommendations on which ones really high priority
for um a couple of different categories in here. The dark green is just continued
timber production by D. N. R. The blue I think was existing or in
process TLT s you can see gibbs lake up. There was in process at that time and then
the stripey ones with the hash marks like near port ludlow. Those were D. N. R. Hold
or community forest and the yellow was D. N. R. Holder community
for us through T. L. T. And notice that's the beaver valley track that was pulled
from the re so you know some of this stuff has identified 10 years ago as being a
priority for conservation or otherwise. Another one is the thorndike which was proposed
for um TLT and that's now now that's part of the day bob bay um boundary
now and it's part going through T. L. T. So at a very basic level I think you know
as part of the scope of work you need to have a map that comes out with. Um And maybe
there's another category for re conveyance. Some of these parcels like ludlow might
be a perfect one for community forestry conveyance or something basic level. This
is what I think needed. And then within that go into those re conveyance pieces and
say well you know what are the economics if the county takes this over for management
or not or if um you know, so that's that I just wanted to share it out. So people
got an idea for each of these parcels. They're all names, you can go to a name like
this is thorndike and you can go to the back of the report and you get a whole right
up on that particular parcel and some of these have changed over some of them in
clear cut, some of them to stay the same. Um If you look at this one more thing I
wanted to bring up,
if you look at the bottom, this was the Duck Bush River proposed for TLT because
it's elk wintering range really important for the elk. This is one that D. N. R.
Proposed to sell this piece at an auction as part of the land bank auction a couple
of years ago and because we have this report we're able to go back and say wait a
minute, that's not a good piece to sell. that's really and and the tribes, the state
W. F. W. The county commissioners, everybody convinced D. N. R. Not to sell that
piece, it's still kind of in limbo. That was a PLT.
So that's about it. Thank you.
Hopefully hopefully this can be obviously brought up to date but also now we've got
the globally rare forest, the element occurrences from being our heritage that can
go on this and that that legacy forest layer. So we've got two really
important shape files that can be overlaid right on this to get a better idea of
of some of the priority areas. Thanks Peter.
So just so kate and Greg and I because this is our only opportunity to have restrictions
about this. Um Are are you good with Mallory moving forward with her contract
as described today?
I'm Peter doing start sharing your screen,
looks like he's working on it. Peter, you need to stop sharing. I
um so I still I still feel like that we need a little more input in the process.
And so I would have a couple of an idea of how we might do that which is um to maybe
um make sure that we have a diverse and representative uh group and I totally appreciate
that you have that to some degree Mallory but you know as a public entity. We need
to really be sure that we are representing um all of the the interested parties.
Um so I do think we should consider if there is representation in kind of helping
shape the scope of this. Um If we have the right all the right folks at the table,
which you know, might be different for our purposes than for your purposes. Mallory
and that's that's hard and you know, partly and I'm wanting to protect you a little
bit from a political and contentious potentially issue. Um And so like I think we
need to be honest about is this very political thing, we're doing something that
you want to take on. And I get you saying, you know, it's about the information and
I totally respect that. Um But information is weaponized these days. We know.
Yeah. Um I think I think we have a responsibility to make sure that we feel like
all the right interests are at the table for a very public process is something that
we're asking. So can I ask a question on that key point? Cause I just wanted to have
next steps. So if Mallory sends us a list of her advisers and we've added peter today
to the three of us, we can send back suggestions to her specifically. Is that would
that be a process that would work for you kate or? Yeah. And maybe work with, you
know with this group who might they might have a good idea of, you know, should there
be um I'll just throw out, should there be representation from the timber industry.
And they're very interested, very concerned about lack of consistent supply to mills
and we know that that's a very real concern. Um You know so I don't know and I I
am not pretending like I have the answers here but I could see making sure that we
have a right committee that includes identifying commissioner to be involved in that
process, working that committee, working with Mallory to refine the scope of work
and then that scope of work coming back to the commissioners for uh feedback and
approval before moving on. That would be my recommendation.
I don't know I mean
yeah I mean I get your point and it is I mean I have talked a lot about this, I am
aware of that going in forestry is not it's a contentious field and I think there
are think there are a lot of benefits here and trying to look at it from all sides
and I tried to get um the most balanced group that I could but you're right, I don't
have tender industry on there. I have D. N. R. Um And uh yeah so there's there's
a missing piece there that's something that we want to be seeing. Um I will say you
know as chickadee because I am a contractor, I do work with private industry um quite
a bit and I do have other contracts and so it's not something that is outside of
my own fields. Um but however you want to do this with the county as a contractor
here, I'm trying to make your life easier as well.
And I think all of the people, all the advisors here have been committed here for
me and for this project for communities because they care deeply about lands and
um the community and you know, the balance of doing this right and setting um setting
ourselves up for success and enforced and land management. I hope it doesn't sound
like I'm questioning that at all. In fact, I've worked with for many, many years
and totally trust the expertise far surpasses mine. I just want to be sure that we're
setting up the process to get to the right, um, you know, to provide the right information
that we need and so having having to do a bunch of work and then say, oh wait, we
didn't get the questions, we really need an answer, that's what I'm afraid of. Yeah,
yeah, no, and I didn't feel like that, I'm just gonna call out and try and support
my advisors all the time. And did did you just put your hand up again? Yeah, I have
a recommendation for you, Heidi um as far as this process goes and um to kate's point
about not being sure what the next steps are, what the, you know, what is the public
input and what role does it have. I love the idea of potentially having a very particular
board or or by a workgroup or whatever you wanna call it that addresses skates point
with regards to uh input and a place where contentious issues come to play.
The current advisory board is a working group is a kind of relatively answer questions,
get things done. Um I think that tenor of that would change dramatically in order
to meet kate subjective as being a transparent public, any kind of space. Um and
so I really, I don't think you can resolve that here. I think asking for input for
people about how that is addressed is a really good idea cake and that you that be
a step and then have a timeline about how those things get reported to the public
and how it maintains its transparency. I think I think you you're asking for some
a proposal that you could pick at as far as timeline and advisor and process in public
comments, right? Um which is something I don't think you can do at this meeting but
you can ask um the advisory group that currently supports Mallory to you know recommend
recommendations about how that timeline and public transparency issue gets resolved
and I think that's a perfect place for a county commissioner to be on, you know a
group that the county commissioner is on or rotates through or how that ever works.
So I think that's a really uh I think that's a step that has to be put on paper and
then propose to get to, y'all for picking up. And I did put it on some paper, started
putting it on some paper. So I think it's a, it's a nested set of folks, it's it's
a project manager, which I see Mallory in that role, it's a core technical team.
And then then there's an advisory group, it's a bit broader, which I think is what
Kate's talking about is building that. So the technical advisory group that gets
in the weeds and looks at the data and, you know, does the crunchy nerdy data analysis.
But the advisory group is a broader stakeholder group that has, you know, different
interests. And then there needs to be an outlined uh calendar of public engagement
opportunities, whether, like I said earlier, that's quarterly. Um so I, you know,
I started to kind of map that out, but you know, I didn't, this is the first time
I had the chance to sit with y'all and talk about it. So,
and all these trying to get sorry, did someone speak? No, no, other hands are up.
Okay, Okay. Um since we're trying to do that, we did talk briefly about this amount
to put you on the spot. But do you want to be that point person at least to start
so that it can be, will be a project manager and I will be working with the industry
to define the scope of where clarify that and determine the timeline so that we can
have a public engagement because we we did talk about this to have um you know, one
or two public meetings in addition to the zero cc. These kinds of meetings to just
um share the work and see what public also have to say. Yeah, no I mean I'm happy
to serve that role and I I was thinking that you were gonna have similar conversations
with Greg and kate since we met. So I'm not I'm not sure if that happened but um
I would have loved to share my little nested outline of folks and public outreach
and engagement and work on that with Mallory and then get it back to the V. zero
cc. For review if that works for everyone. Mhm. Yeah,
I understand. So we have the technical advisory group already. Right. Mallory's advisory
group is really our technical advisory group. We're talking about making a um kind
of a broader group to have these policy questions is what it seems to me that because
that's I mean to me the advisory group has work to do that's been outlined and is
appropriate. I think maybe not quite um signed off on that path. But I feel like
that information needs to come before we convene this wider group that is kind of
come up with our strategy right? We're still getting the data and I feel like we
have a group together to collect. Right, right next step will be putting that one
commissioner and advisory group with Peter and timber interests and you know, milk
or whatever and ecological stakeholders and you know, neighbors to forest line or
whatever. And there we come up with a policy uh direction based on the data that's
being gathered now that what you're saying, lady, I think so. I think it's just different
terms than my Yeah. And I will say real quickly, the I haven't had the chance. I
talked a little bit to Greg but we did meet with Heidi and my goal was to have a
one on one with each of the county commissioners just to go over this individually
with each of you because I know we can't have these conversations as a group, but
just to have clarification on my role with you and making sure that I'm capturing
what each of your goals concerns are as we move forward. So Greg and Heidi would
be actually, sorry, it would be great to meet with you and I can send invites and
so coordinate that. Yeah, I mean, ultimately we all we still have the three of us
have to decide, you know, discuss and decide the direction we want to go. So this,
you know, there's no avoiding the awkward um public meeting where we make sausage,
you know, in real time in view of the public. Yeah, yeah. But it gives a little bit
more time, one on one um to just find out a little bit more information and just
to address more of your questions so we don't have to necessarily do it in a forum
each time. Yeah. Yeah. My um my my desires, I
don't really care what we call it or what we um the what I would really like
is for us to get a draft scope of work with more specificity um and and agree to
that as a board. Um that's really my my desire next step um and whether that's an
advisory committee or I or Heidi taking a stab at it and then us responding to it.
Um but I would like to see a framework um to be sure that we're getting to the out
not even outcomes just uh well yeah, I think really outcomes of it um to see that
it's gonna give me the information. I feel like I need to be considering good policy
recommendations or asks of PNR
so are we good with me working with Mallory on her updated scope of work? Okay, thanks
Heidi. Hmm. Yeah.
Um okay, I think that that's a good next step. Look at us. Oh
team. Okay, well thank you to mike and ross and al
and with their cameras off Peter and Catherine and Denise for being here today and
for your input. Mallory and I will work on that updated scope of work and get it
on. Yes. Um so we had it on the agenda that we're going to take public comments
as part of this agenda item. So if anyone is with us on the attendee list, who would
like to make a public comment about anything we just discussed over the last 52 minutes,
please raise your hand using the raise hand button at the bottom of the zoom screen
and we will bring you over for comments. Okay, let's start with in the room with
me here. Um yeah, I'm just concerned that uh, it might end up being a very
cumbersome process known as well, more process than uh interfere with Mallory actually
get anything done.
Well, we got our first step so plans. Thanks. Um I saw another hand up.
So I think it was Cindy. Oh yes, Cindy brought Cindy over Cindy, you cannon mute
and you'll have three minutes for public comment meech.
Hello Commissioners and everyone. Thanks for the great meeting. I think it's a great
idea to update that for us for the future. Um document. It seems to provide a good
outline now. Good starting point. One of the criteria that I think is very important
to add is climate change mitigation up the potential for each parcel to optimize
forest carbon sequestration. That's different from adit, climate adaptation potential
and fire resistance and all that stuff. But that's really my comment at forest carbon
sequestration potential. Thank you. Thank you. Sandy, do we respond to them?
Sure. If you want to respond. Yeah, Thank you Cindy. And I think um the way that
I've practiced forest management and ecological silver cultures, um that is very
much incorporated in uh to to the model is forest carbon sequestration. Um I've added
Denise on to address that in a much more targeted way and really focus on. So if
you want to say anything
no. Um Yeah, that that exactly Mallory has already covered it. Um That's part
of my job. And uh looking at this and I think it's I think it's a part of one of
the things Cindy indirectly addresses is measuring it, making it known and and understanding
what how much carbon is being sequestered in in lands we identify. I think it's taking
credit for what we're doing basically. So I think it's a really good point uh that
it gets get let's get what gets measured, gets noticed, take care. Thanks Denise.
Anybody else on the attendee list who would like to make a public comment?
I'm not seeing any other hands go up kate or Greg, do you want to respond to that?
Um The carbon line of thinking, no, I'd be more interested in responding to al and
just like I hear you and I agree. And um I think part of the idea of signing off
on the scope of work is that we then let Mallory and her team run with it. Um and
then what we do with that information, Um you know that that then then it could get
bogged down again in the public process but if we agree to it up front then let the
technical people do their thing and then we will, we will digest it after the fact.
So appreciate your then hearing you say that for 25 years out, I agree with you.
What's that,
any other public comment on this item, Otherwise we're gonna close this workshop
up and super huge gratitude for everyone who joined us today um and don't go far
away, I just like to thank you all. Um and if there's anything else for many of my
advisors, I really appreciate you all showing up and to talk about this. I know this
has been a hot topic. So if you have any closing notes, I'd love to hear from you
Who is dealing with the county of land. She's uh in her day job she's been creating
um relationships in markets for small would like within the county. And so that will
be going forward. That would be hugely successful for the county of lands, especially
the small five and 10 acre ones that right now seem a not economically manageable
but creating these, you know mills right in the county right locally will be going
forward would be great. So thanks Mallory. Thanks Yeah. Um this isn't something we
even touched on but I will comment real quick and just say that um this has been
a big project in mind, especially in um working with Michael lot, that small breast
line and there's are a huge part of our land base and um for the county we have so
many less than 10 acre kind of properties and if there are forest health issues,
how do we manage those and keep the wood in county and keep jobs in county. And I
have been piloting that. And just the first two harvests with wood song tree company,
they're doing some smaller, selective sending for me um, and selling them back in
county and have a local log fire and we're negotiating for log storage and county.
So we are doing local sales and I would, my plan is to expand that within county
work. So very exciting. So anything else from any, anyone else on in the same
room or else? Okay, well thanks everyone, we're gonna move on to our next agenda
item, which is another workshop. Thanks Mallory. Let's make a date soon. Sounds great.
Okay, thank you guys.
So now we're moving on to back housing plans and
we'll bring Brent and Jody and Phil over thank you al appreciate you.
And and Jody Caroline. Yeah, yeah
Jody. If you're listening you have to accept the promotion. The panelists.
Okay, so I'm assuming rinse running this started kicking this off remark. I'm not
sure who's taking the lead on this workshop.
I think it can lead it off. I know this is a priority of the board to simplify the
development of affordable housing through the use of stock plans and I think um Clarendon
County served as the model and I think maybe Commissioner Brotherton brought this
up some months ago and so with that Brent take the floor please.
I believe Bill sincere needs to be brought over as well. He's here. Okay, I didn't
see him.
Well friend is do you know joe did you guys have a check? You should be
there one second. Okay. Thanks.
Yeah.
Yes. Okay. So I thank you, Mark for the opening um lines, I
did hear you and our discussion today is on a workshop really stock plans, housing
policy program and plan and I'm joined today by Jody Adams,
um the permit and administrative manager and fills to serie our plans examiner too
and I think Phil you've got 15 I. C. C certifications, is that correct? Yes, correct.
Yeah. So we're really thankful to have you as part of the team um
our agenda, we're gonna look at the stock plans, um of definitions, applicability,
the four pathways, um some of the designs and um it's up to the board but we do have
a planning commission subcommittee and I believe the subcommittee members are here,
two of the subcommittee members have degrees in architecture. Um and I think they'd
be more than willing to participate by just explaining the plans if the board so
chooses,
We're also gonna look at the costs and procedures and then I'll move on to next steps
so who can use uh really important first question. Uh we designed this um,
initially it was really focused on residential plans. Um, and when I say residential
plans, we're looking at plans that would serve the purpose is not only of accessory
dwelling units but also critically important of what some communities
call a basic housing unit. And we're gonna touch base on that a little bit more.
And actually there was a typo a misstatement in this in the agenda request where
we mentioned Pleasant Harbor actually, the county recommended that they used the
stock plans and and Pleasant Harbor did like the idea. Um, and and these stock plans
would help um ensure that we're only charging what is a reasonable cost, a reasonable
fee for services. So it does also mean um, some other needs and Jody will cover the
fee, schedule and how that is laid out later on in the presentation. Now, what is
it? So a stock plan is a design that is repeated for more than one site.
Okay, so some of you might remember that old song about daly city taking tactic in
time, but it's, it's really was intended to have multiple designs uh, that can be
repeated throughout the community and save costs now who prepares it? Um, well typically
we have a licensed design professional such as an architect but that's not necessarily
a requirement, the benefits of that. And I talked about this in our staff report
um agenda request is that uh there's immunity provided by statute for
licensed professionals like surveyors, um architects, landscape architects and um
but often designers carry their own um insurance and so um that might be a way
to encourage designers that don't have a practice and license to also participate
and I just wanted to highlight that So I'm gonna move on to the next slide. And so
what are the four pathways? So um we um um as um
a planning agency have been working with together and when I say the planning agency
and referring to the planning division And the Planning Commission and so on
July 11 I shared that the Planning Commission created a subcommittee of three
individuals. Commissioner, Arlene Allen, Commissioner Matt Sicily and uh Commissioner
kevin Coker um Both commissioners Coker and Alan have degrees in architecture and
they've been very helpful in looking at the plans and so we have four different approaches
that we investigated. The first approach listed here is the city of Seattle and they
have uh 10 plants selected for more than 100 and 60 received. That was a call for
projects. Um We have a partnership with housing solution networks which is really
trying to get some local projects, local plans and then we've looked and met with
Clown County um and they had a basic unit and then the fourth one is the pre
improved plans and processes. And only today. Hot off the press. I've got a response
for that. So we're gonna go one by one and then I will come back to the state of
Washington. I'm gonna pass the baton to um Phil
Thank you. Director Butler. So basically what this was is that Clown County had a
program set up for, I should say specifically the Director of county had a system
set up that was 392 square for what they call a basic living unit. Um It was designed
um to be built simply with locally available products. Everything will be through.
Uh Typical hardware, nothing would be proprietary stuff will be available off the
shelf and uh local hardware stores, that kind of thing. So so the way that their
system had worked was that there was a Uh they had a reduced fee schedule with that
it was $392 for 392 sq ft. And that included the basic um inspections and
everything you needed to do. It was to be able to be built by somebody with minimal
construction knowledge and background. Um But would be what they were calling A basic
living unit is a very good basis. I think something that we could probably base a
similar program off of. Unfortunately this particular plan set does not meet the
2018 Washington state energy code or the 2018 I. R. C. That we have adopted apparently
caused a little bit um has has adopted a different code cycle. They're a different
code cycle than we are. Um And then additionally it is my understanding that the
director left county sometime this summer and that those plans were her
intellectual property. So the county doesn't currently have the right to um to to
sell them to us. So I'm not sure how feasible it is to actually still try to
use this program. But there's a lot of basics there's a lot of ground work there
that I think that we can build upon um to get our own pre approved set of plans.
So I'm gonna switch to the what I call the near term approaches the city of Seattle
pathway. And as I indicated at 100 and 60 plans submitted um they identified
10 of those plans And of those 10 plans um um we
have through the Planning Commission subcommittee identified for um that we would
recommend. Um and so we're gonna I'm gonna defer to them to discuss that but before
we do that I just wanted to talk about the other pathways um as well. Another pathway
is the housing solutions network. Um um And what we're doing tomorrow is we'll be
meeting with HSN as collaborative with the city of Port Townsend. The real goal of
that meeting is to identify um what What types of plans the community would benefit
from and some of this would benefit from your input um of the plan sets that we've
looked at for the city of Seattle. City of Seattle will notice that none of them
approached 1249 sq ft. Um they have
a requirement that For size just like most
municipalities such as the city of Port Townsend which has 800 square foot limitation.
And so one of the things that is a concern is that we don't have many
large designs and that partnership might be able to fill that gap. Um And then another
approach is um the Washington state Department of Commerce issue
housing action plan implementation grants. And although we did not qualify for that,
we're not a city, one of the cities on the olympic peninsula, the city of Port Angeles
um is developing stock plans. Um That would be duplexes A. D. U.
S. And I believe they have one other model. And so what we're hopeful is that there's
potential that we might be able to utilize those plans and at least provide some
input to that process. Um And so that is a grant that right now they've submitted
uh um they're about to go out with an RFP uh to retain a consultant to develop that.
And so I consider those two more long term but I wanted to apprise you of that. Any
questions at this juncture. Okay so I believe we do have our
planning commissioners in attendance. Um and I believe they might wish to present
uh do we have uh Commissioners Allan and commissioners coker or Commissioner Sicily
available Arlene that one, Arlene.
Okay. I don't see kevin with us.
Can I ask what they're coming over? Are these Seattle plans up to date 20 you know,
up to date entity code 2018 IRC and all that. So all of these plans are done in
accordance with the 2018 I C. C. And I do want to point out that just
before we go into that is that uh we have a cycle that is coming up and I'm
going to discuss that and I'll circle back to that if that's okay. Commissioner Brotherton
and I'll let our lena Commissioner Allen and Commissioner certainly discuss the plans.
Um Commissioners welcome um as I indicated that these two commissioners are two of
the three that formed the subcommittee. And so are you able to see the presentation?
Okay so I have the first uh plan set up that was recommended and I'm gonna let Arlene
or or matt share um what they found they liked about this
Good afternoon. Um So I would say that first of all I'm not prepared to do this,
someone else should be doing this today. So forgive me, I didn't drill down into
such detail. I think that I can speak to how he chose his plans and um of the group
of four. All of them would fit within the cities Range. And
some of them were scalable and this is one that was scalable and so some of them
look at one bedroom but have modules to be two and three. And what we did when we
looked at all the 10 plans that were online. We we've looked at them from the perspective
of livability. Some of them were not and you know, could a family live in this is
the flow work. Is this a reasonable plan? Is this something that is adaptable to
our facts here which are somewhat different than Seattle? And so we chose these
four and I know that you can go through them but we chose these four for livability.
We chose one of them for its marketability as well as its livability. And and that
one is so few garages floating through our area. This is a model that you can have
a garage and rent what's upstairs. Now that's a pretty common usage in many places,
but not necessarily here. And for people who have the heart to invest in the community
and who want to help the challenge. This is one way for them to be able to build
something that they can benefit from immediately and have that increased use of their
lot paid for by the tenant. And so um all of that makes this is her plan at this
moment in time very marketable to our community. Thank you. I
mean I did uh Commissioner Helen. I did put up the garage plan and I'm going to move
through the next one for those that are on the phone. The first planet we shared
was Artisans Group which has a good universal access and they do have costs
for um hourly consultation. Um And what I'm showing is an accessible
one bedroom detached accessory dwelling unit which also in our community could be
used as a primary dwelling unit and it has a vaulted ceilings and there is a gabled
roof option. Question when you say they have an option for hourly consultation, does
that mean that as architects, they could we could hire them for a few hours to adapt
these plans. Change them or is it is that what you're talking about? Well actually
there's two components here. So for all the plans. The way it's arranged with the
city of Seattle is that the community member goes to the architecture firm and buys
the plan set. The plan set would already have been reviewed by the municipality.
And then they do have an option of a plot of buying the plan set. And I call plan
set light without all of the engineering Or they can buy the plan set and also by
all of the site engineering. Okay. And so there's an additional cost for that. I
think it was 1000 for the plan set in another 1500 for its engineering. And so um
and then they have that architecture firm as their partner. So if they want to make
changes or modification. Um it will be built on an hourly rate. And and I looked
at the hourly rates and they're about 118 $120 per hour. So so they have a
partner to help them through the process. Thank you. You're welcome. And so
the second plans are the shape architecture plans which has as uh Commissioner Alan
identified uh the bases, the garage and above that is the living unit. And this should
be something that would be really good for areas of tight sites. Um um And other
areas in the county that we do have a lot of substandard locks.
And then another unit or design is called the Urban cottage which is a modular flexible
design. Um with what we call simple construction which are structural um
What does that term? Film, structural, um panel
insulated panels. Thank you. And so and and they have um six
different designs that are possible through this process.
And we're showing of the one bedroom units and the two bedroom units. The one bedroom
unit is about 432 square feet. Um and the two bedroom units is about
576 square feet. And so they also have an available and gable
uh or butterfly roof. So for those that are not able to see the visuals,
they are also available on the county's website. Then the last design that we looked
at out of the tent was yes architecture which is a multi split level design on a
small footprint. And I wanted to circle back to Commissioner Brother James question.
Um And so one of these kinds of reviewed uh the review with a certain set of I.
C. C. Codes. And so these were all reviewed with the 2018. I see. See historically
the international I say I CCR referring to the International Code Council which has
about 15 different types of codes plumbing, mechanical, electrical,
residential building. So all of these codes are promulgated once every three years
and so frequently that that adoption we do by reference. We're often not aware of
it because we adopt the new codes by reference. So typically July one of 2023
we would have a new code cycle. Um and Joe do you want to share anything about that?
Uh So yes actually the state adopts the code upcoming code cycle I. C c. Publishes
every three years. And then this Washington state typically adopts those code cycles
the following july so the 2021 cycle would have been adopted july 2022 with Covid.
They adopted the 2018 codes two plus years late. And so we're kind of following that
same schedule which means we expect that the 2021 codes will be adopted in july of
2023.
So why this is important is that it means that if we
were to adopt these plans Utilizing the 2021 code
cycle, it would mean that community members would have less than 11 months um, to
utilize that as opposed to the whole three year cycle. Would it make sure any questions
on that? Does everyone understand that? I mean that's a, that's a Bit of a bombshell
there. If if there are changes, the plan would be invalidated, right? But if there
weren't any changes from the 2018 to 2021 pertaining to a particular design, they'd
still be valid. Right? Yes, but there's usually energy code changes and that's usually
one of the hardest areas for people to comply. Got you. So,
so Jody had a really great idea that I only heard of this morning, why don't you
share that Jody? I was saying that you can build your or design your plans to be
more restrictive. So even though we have not yet adopted the 2021 codes, a person
can design their building Plans to the 21, code cycle and submit those now to be
used for a longer period of time. We can, we can choose to be more restrictive on
our plans. We just can't be less restrictive. So once the 21-21 codes are adopted,
we can't go backwards and use the 2018 codes, but we can always go forward. So I
mentioned that because um these plans are all being used by the Senior Seattle with
the 2021. And so the question is um could we impressed upon the architects to
make the changes necessary for them to accommodate the next code cycle. Um And so
those are some of the areas that we would look at. Um And the reason we're saying
that really comes to funds um it costs resources to have these plans reviewed
and we would rely upon the board for those resources um to review those plans. And
so if in fact we could utilize the 2021 I. C. C codes
we would get three years or the community would benefit from three years versus 11
months or so for which those plans could be used. Any questions on that?
Okay I have a question from your staff report about the costs. Are you guys gonna
get into that soon? Yes. Yes
and that's the next slide. So I'm gonna pass it to joe to talk about cost. So the
cost of this um stock plan adoption is so currently we have our building code or
building fees are based on the building codes that are adopted. So they changed with
the code cycles. We currently charge whatever the base fee is for our inspection
costs based on typically square footage are estimated cost of the project. So those
are our actual staff time to go out there and do the inspections. So that won't the,
I will say that will be based on the size of the structure. So when it's a really
small structure, 400 and 500 square feet, the building basically is actually relatively
small because there's not as many inspections to do. Currently we charge 65% of that
base fee as our plan check fee. That is the fee it would take for Phil or plans examiner
to review the building plans every time they come in through the front door with
the stock plan um program those plans would already be reviewed. So the program would
be set up that when you come in the first time and you'd like to submit your plan
set to be a stock plan. So instead of like the ones we were previously talking about
where we have some in house that customers can use, they can bring their own in and
say, I would like to build this particular house, you know, 35 times in the community.
Um So a developer could do that. They would submit that as a stock plan in our office
with the building application, we would charge 100% plan check fee instead of the
65% plan check fee. So that would establish them as stock plans. That would pay for
the extra time it took Phil to go through the plans and make sure that they were
able to be used multiple times. Um Certain pages of a plan, insects cannot be used
repetitive lee. So site specific conditions might change, such as the foundation.
So once that stock plan was set, any subsequent submit ALs or future submit als would
only be charged a 20% based b instead of the standard 65 per cent base fee. So they
would have a cost savings on the future some medals for that particular Plan set
and then that 20% would be used really to look at the changes that are different
for the new site conditions such as foundation, potentially egress. Um, there are
options to move the floor plan around. Some maybe the mechanical systems around.
So there may be new energy code reviews. So they would save plan, check fees with
each subsequent submittal.
Is there any questions about that portion of it?
This is this is only if we open it up so someone brings in a plan says I wanted to,
this is gonna be a stock plan now I'll play 100% versus 65% and I can use it. Can
anyone then use it? Does that mean that I could coming up? I think I have submitted
a stock plan. I'd like to use their stock plan. No, it would be a massacre specific.
So each customer would need to submit his own stock plans and some of that does have
to do with professional design copyrights and there's a whole approval process that
needs to happen with that plan set that's specific to that customer. So if we had
a design professional who wanted to submit, there's to be used by anybody. That would
be a different review process and potentially a different fee base. Um, although
it would be, it could be based similarly on the these fees as well. I mean, it seems
like a good incentive. You know, I mean anything, you know, if it was, we incentivize
it, we could have a lot of stock plans, Right? I support this. I'm not opposed to
it. I guess. I just, I love the kind of idea of creative commons plans. I think we
would have to get approval from the architect or engineer who drew up the plans.
If they were willing to allow them to be used with all customers, then there should
be a problem with that, right? It really originates with the person or the energy
uh, that has the intellectual property rights. So they can go ahead with those
intellectual property rights and say yes, I want these available for the community.
And this was, this was a popular option, what we called a basics plan in county.
I wanted plan review there. And this is a very popular option among developers that
were doing large housing traction that have two or three designs. They typically
do right, and less of the same structure. Um, and essentially do a couple 100 homes
in that end of development. We don't have that type of building here, but it does
open up an opportunity for that style of building um here. It wouldn't necessarily
be in one uh, development per se. We're talking about, you know, growing these more
across the county and individual lawns.
We would love to have local design professionals submit plans that we can use with
all of the customers. It's really, that's sort of the housing solutions network piece
component of this, where they're actually reaching out to the community and trying
to get local architects, engineers, designers to submit their plans to use as stock
plans in those situations. We wouldn't charge all of the other building permit fees
because they weren't necessarily being submitted for a specific site. It would really
be the plan, check fees to establish them as a stock plan and then the rest of the
permit fees would be used at the time an application was submitted to use those plans.
And I also wanted to point out that there's one other component when I mentioned
intellectual property. So assuming that I was the architect and I designed it or
the design professional, um, and I was commissioned to develop those plans for one
specific client. I believe that the client also has to approve um, the use of those
plans. So it's not only the person that has the intellectual property, but the person
who's paid for that right to, to, to retain that. So, so I just wanted to add that
slight nuance and I did want to welcome would you have a Commissioner Coker has joined
us and he might be interested in sharing some of the highlights. He sort of
the plans that Commissioner Coker, would you like to do that? I can back up if you
would like to talk about some of the things that you saw the plans. Sure. Just a
quick update of how um, we spoke with a couple of the designers architects to
discuss how they actually manage their plans through the city of Seattle and primarily
it all runs back through the architect or designer. And the reason being is that
then they're able to maintain the intellectual property right? But also it generates
some additional work for them. But what they did was they were allowing for the site
specific engineering that needed to take place, you know, one slips, one is flat
and you've got very different approaches to that foundation. It can not only reduce
the architecture fees but the engineering fees because then the architect came with
the client, go back to the original engineer who has most of the engineering calculations
prepared already. Um they're able to reduce the engineering fees from what might
be a six or $7000 fee to $1000 fee just for review and a few detail changes. So that
was an additional benefit. Um, I will say that unless a client Specifically says
they want to maintain ownership of the design, typically all of that intellectual
property belongs to the designer. So it is only on, in my case in 25 years, only
on two occasions as a client said, Hey, I don't want you to repeat my design. Um
so it is often very easy to get once you've got a designer who's interested in, an
architect can be brought to the table. Um and they are very different. Animals fills
mentioning how developers building hundreds of houses or in Seattle where they're
only building the 800 square feet for us. It's that anything under 12 50 there are
many designers in our area that have already designed to the local Egyptian County
code Seattle was saying that for them to bring one of their designs to Jefferson
County would have to go through another level of scrutiny for themselves to be sure
that they complied with all Egyptian County's regulations that may be different in
certain aspects to Seattle. So um they've got several very good um um
projects. The modular was very good. One specific item that we were also looking
at was making as many of these accessory dwelling or in the case of the initial
construction is considered the primary residence, but all of them universally accessible.
We know that in our community that's a very common requirement for most people who
want to be able to age in place. So when we go through the vetting process and the
call for designs we can you know push the various elements that we want which is
anything under 1250 square feet, you know, as much of it universally designed as
possible. Um and other aspects that can help to reduce costs overall, one of which
being um providing most of the mechanicals in one or two walls within the structure
helps to eliminate mechanical runs, whether it's plumbing venting to both sides of
the house and and other things. So um overall the process looks like if
we provide the designers information that this is a particular design that's been
through the county already, it can become a stock plan and in most cases it just
takes a site plan, the foundation plan and perhaps you know a few other elements
within it that client may want to change. We can make a fairly seamless process at
that point.
So um at this juncture we do have a room for questions about our
approach. I did want to point out that it doesn't seem as though the cloud county
plans is an option. And I think I highlighted on july 11th of the concern I had about
the D. C. D. Director leaving and us not being able to use the plans after she left.
I did not anticipate that she would leave before that day makes it easier.
I have a kind of out of the box question. Um I think one of the most common type
of tiny houses that is being built in Jefferson County right now is outside of D.
C. S. Purview and that is, you know if you build it on wheels of course it's uh L.
I right that would permit it and they really only permit I think kind of manufacturers
and park models and everything. But I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for a
stock plan for a tiny house on wheels and park model essentially that is L. And I
approved. So maybe there's a stock plan submitted through D. C. D. That goes through
Ellen eyes process that when you guys get one of the, I'm sure daily calls, hey I
wanna permit my tiny house on wheels. Maybe there's a path to that through Hay. If
you build this one it's uh you can get an L. And I stand. I love that idea. I mean
actually that was one of the things I think commissioner coca identified in one of
the submittal that staff should check with the city of Seattle to see how they are
addressing that um aspect because one of the plan sets or had some reference to that
and in the past, what I've found is that if L. And I approved it, local building
departments are not even involved in the process other than when you get into environmental,
health and other issues. But as far as the structure is concerned it's fully licensed
and you can drive it onto the property once it's constructed. And yes those plans
once approved are good for a cycle through L. And I similar to what we're proposing
through D. C. D. And also if you can't get them approved by there's no way to permit.
Right? I mean you can't D. C. D. Can't permit something on wheels is my understanding.
Right? The only time I've seen that change is often we have mobile homes that move
into the flood zone and so there is a way to attach it to the land that
removes the the men on the numbers that L. And I have. So I
have seen that certain processes that is true with manufactured homes but they're
essentially removing the wheels and fixing it to the ground. And you can't do that
with an RV. Or a tiny home. And my one other question is the 21 I. R. C. And I. C.
C. Includes a section on tiny ones. Right? So it's two. And it has since
2012. Oh it has since 2012. There was new new tiny house rules coming out that haven't
been enacted yet. So the state. So you kinda have to different things going on here
too. So you have the 2018 code cycle or any code cycle for the I. C. C. Which in
this trick location. Talk about IRC international residential code now that also
gets amended by the state. So the state also has certain things that they tweak um
volumes per se uh crawlspace volumes uh attic volumes. Things like that tweet for
our local environment for Washington state. That could be further be clarified you
know by county if we decide to go more stranger than that. Um Now that being said
the Washington state um amendments just recently did quite a bit with the appendix
Q. So I. R. C. Has recognized it for a while now at least the last three code cycles.
But the state adopted certain portions and tweak certain things in the appendix to
for tiny homes which are eligible for anything over 400 square foot. That's the threshold
for a tiny home is 400 square feet. And not including a loft area. So like the standards
are lower for some of those. Right? So what it does the standards aren't necessarily
lower. What it does do is it does certain things like say you know you have a tiny
home and a standard staircase in a standard home is gonna be 36" wide. We simply
can't do that in a tiny home that's half the time. So you know you're allowed to
reduce certain things to reduce certain head heights in order to get aloft. You know
you're lost. You don't have to you can't have you don't have to stand up in your
law. There are certain things and there's certain um emergency access address requirements
you know, and sleeping loft and things like that? And that's one of the things that
the state has tackled at that level. Um they found things that like things they didn't
like fire film wise, things like that. But yeah, the appendix Q. Is here to stay,
it's been here for a little while, the state recently, especially in the last cycle
of 2018 cycle, the current one um really kind of spoke up and decided that there
were certain things they wanted to see. And, and you know, it's when the tiny homes
came out was kind of uh took a little bit of community involvement were to find out
exactly where the weak spots were. And so that's kind of what this last code cycle
is kind of clarified. Uh, as far as tiny homes are concerned
and I should point out so those tiny homes are site built on a foundation, everything
else, you know, wind load, snow load, seismic zone, everything is included. So things
that aren't included in a tiny home on wheels, which can either be an RV or a model
or they can also be built to hunt standards so they can be approved basically as
a small manufactured home. So there's kind of three different ways to go any tiny
home, three different um, it's either gonna be through ansi standard hud standard
or the regular IRC.
Thank you
question. Um do we know of other um rural jurisdictions? I mean I guess we could
look right next door at Column County, but are there others where we get a sense
of the uptake of availability of stock plans like this? Mhm. Yes. And I did speak
with them mary Helen when born before she had left and she said that they had anticipated
the use of the plans for accessory dwelling units. And at the time that I spoke with
her, she said that no one had used it for that purpose. They were all being used
for primary basic units, non accessories. Um I recall she had said that there were
only four that had applied for that and if I recall correctly, one of the reasons
she thought there was so little was that it wasn't large enough to meet some of the
community need. Yeah, I spoke with the building official earlier today at collin
County and she said that she thought that it was slightly larger or if they had the
option to modify it more than what was already existing that it may have been used
more but at the present size that hadn't been used very frequently and that particular
design looked like it was gonna be a little bit difficult to try to expand on the
future. That's one of the nice things about some of the options that we have here,
it looks like they're flexible and that you have the ability to modify and expand
them down the road um That 392 square foot on the cloud had, was there was really
only one way that you can expand. It was out through a uh, through an existing doorway
is what it looked like to me. I mean you could do a lot more involved, but it wasn't
gonna be easy to add on to, I should say no. Um interesting to see if especially
if we're working with housing solutions network, if we could maybe get some some
financing pathways created to for these through local financial institutions, I could
see that that could be a barrier for some for rural folks. Um
and um I obviously know who I could ask this question of, but because my husband
runs that department in Seattle, but just curious the has the uptake that in in Seattle
is, has been widely used there. You know that I can't answer yet because the way
it's been arranged is that you would go to the architect, so I'm not getting an
overview of all of the plans. And so in my last conversation, which is about a year
ago, a little over a year ago, 14 months, they had indicated that the plans that
were used the most were the ones where the architect was a promoter was sharing.
Uh and the reason I reached out to them was we were trying to get the plans promoted
the most, that had accessible features because in my prior world role, I was advancing
age friend in Seattle to make Seattle not only a great place to grow up but also
to grow old. So so I had that was one of my missions at that point. So so I would
be great if I could reach out to your husband if that is okay to find out
more information. Yeah I was gonna say I spoke with them last fall. The city of Brenton
also has a similar program as well as Olympia and lacey. And of course cities are
slightly different. It's much easier to connect to sewer and water um than it is
here. But they had indicated they have a lot lower response than they expected to
have with their plans rent uneven actually does all the site work design for you
so that the community development office designs your site plan and tells you the
location on your property would be best suited. So they even do a little bit more.
Um And they had I will say these programs are generally knew most of them have only
been out for a year or two and so there isn't a lot of data that the cities have.
Um But overall it seems like there may be being utilized a little bit less than expected
but still being utilized. And I would also highlight that I was really excited that
especially for our port Hadlock Yugi area, the missing middle type
of plan that the city of Port Angeles is creating. Might have real opportunities
for use in our U. G. A.
So of these four approaches that you just outlined. Is there one that you guys are?
Um I mean I see a number of questions under the housing solutions network approach.
I'm just wondering if there's one that you're more excited about. Not house plans
but um programmatic approaches that you guys are hearing about. And then I see that
you're wanting us to provide guidance on
kind of which plan which which approach to take? Yes and then you need the funding
to review the plans. That's correct. And so our recommendation would be to allow
there to be three or four plans since the recommendation of the of the subcommittee
was to allow all four to be available to the community. So the city of Seattle Lance
is the course that you're suggesting really is off the table. We haven't had anyone
submit them locally yet. So you're talking about the four plans from Seattle that
the planning commission committee um recommended that that's the only one that we
have available right now, correct? Okay. We would be asking for
review fees for those plans in addition uh we would need some latitude
because I feel that would really benefit us to try to get them to comply with
2021.
Do you have a sense of how much the review the review fees would be for those that
plans. So I can say for our in house review I would estimate approximately 3000 on
the high end for each of the reviews. I don't know if there will be additional costs
for purchasing them or utilizing them from the architecture firms. Okay. Yes. So
I would say this based upon if we use the metric of Um to be safe 5000 for review.
Um and then another 3000 to buy the plans. Um That would be
8000. Um And then eight times four would be roughly 30,000 or 2024 to
be exact eight times for 32,000. Um And so what I would recommend is
that the board we can come back with a specific request
after we've gotten firmer numbers or you can give the county administrator
authority up until a certain limit and I'm curious man hasn't said one in a single
peep I want to hear. Hello everybody. Um I'm here and I'm on the subcommittee and
and I really support everyone I think it's um impressive how the other members of
the subcommittee aren't just experienced with the trade of building or design but
also um both kevin and Arlene have experience with small spaces and their their um
choices in terms of livability are really guided by experience and and compassion
and and knowledge and so I just really support all the decisions they made. Um and
I support everything that Brent's doing, that's pretty much why I'm here and uh um
don't really have too much to add. I do think it's really good to have a diverse
suite of options. If I was going to add one thing, it would be that the overall general
intention is that this is just the beginning, um it's just an initial phases of starting
something new and it's something that I think all of us would like to see grow. Thank
you. Thanks man,
I'm I'm very supportive of the plans. I think it would be worthwhile. I do think
the uptake of this kind of program is going to be kind of directly in relation to
how cheap they are. You know, I mean I think a lot of people that are building a
house wanted to spoke house, you know, I want my house with a window in just the
right place. So it's the customer base is different. One that I'll just one more
out of the box idea. I would love to have a stock plan for europe because I know
a lot of people live in europe in jefferson county too, which is unforgettable. But
if we did the um plan review and engineering to find out which europe is going to
have the hurricane high downs and the engineering to find the equivalency of the
reflective insulation to the art value. So we can say you want your, here's a your
um that would be, I think the kind of plan that a lot of people would take, you know,
it's the same with, you know, if we could come up with a plan that gets approved
by L and I for a real tiny house, I think the uptake would be great. I think you
would have four people manufacturing those within a week in Jefferson County if we
come up with a plan. So I think uh you know, Arlene made a good point about garages
with a studio over the top. That's that, that seems like right on the flexibility
of these others look good. So I'm excited about it. I know it's a slow uphill um
process, but uh I like matt. I think this is just the first step,
hate your hand is up. Yeah. I'm just curious if we have,
I don't have any, any kind of polling formally or informally to understand what the
need is, so therefore help um point to what the solution is. Um And
yeah, just, just curious, do we, do we have a sense of of what our constituents are
interested in and what the barriers are and um just I'm a little concerned that the
lack of uptake in other jurisdictions um that, you know, unless we can kind of hone
in on what it is that people would be most helpful to folks, I have a feeling that
is also financially driven. Um And so you know that's the biggest barrier then we
wanna go in a direction that's most affordable. Um So yes
and I know you all have a lot of anecdotal experience so it's not to discount that.
Yes I see kevin china. Yeah one of the things I wanted to mention is that you know
the Seattle plans were designed for very different um you know urban setting than
what we're talking about in Jefferson County. There are you know for instance my
use that over the past few years I've created were two bedroom, two bath, two car
garages. Which is more of the same family residence in scope. I think that it would
be good for us to ask locally of designers and architects recent A. D. U. S. You
know if it would be acceptable to review them for this process as well because um
many of the things that the designers are throwing in there are universal access
so anyone can get in and be comfortable, energy efficiency durability of materials,
all of those things are zeroed in on designs that have been done for Jefferson County
which would be a quicker step towards understanding what it is that the public wants.
I think it's a very good comment that although these are fairly new in various jurisdictions
across the state and with covid and supply chain issues. It's hard to really get
a grasp of how valuable this tool is but it could be based on Jefferson County designs
and the process is getting a little bit quicker cleaner with supply and materials
that this could over the course of our um you know, going through this process of
finding them and evaluating them and then having them as stock plans um could coincide
nicely with the rest of the construction industry getting geared up and doing their
part to try and get these units out there. Arlene,
thank you. I think one of those programs are you and the other is when you look at
where they're being implemented and how that has a really good website and user interface,
that's very easy to understand but where most of the jurisdictions have fallen down
is in the market aspect of it, in the education aspect with the public. And I think
that that's something that you really have to plan for and budget for it and think
ahead about is making sure people know it and understand it and you want to get engaged
and that's not difficult to do but you have to plan for that communicating.
That was that fed into the question I was gonna ask um it seems like it would be
useful to have some scenarios like if we if we adopt for sets of stock plans and
then said because building prices have gone up so much in the last couple of years
having different cost scenarios right if if you build this with the low, you know,
the most basic materials that's gonna cost x amount of dollars, next amount of 2022
or 20 however many years it takes us to do this $2024. Um Just so people have a sense
of, you know what really so they can really think about what's affordable for them
and that would help with marketing the program. It seems like matt one thought is
that we have a new federal law as of this week um and there might be a lot of incentives
in there which might apply to, you know, it might be worth looking a couple months
from now. Just file away the notion that we might want to look at what types of incentives
are available and if we want to include options like add ons like for solar power,
for charging station or something like that. Yeah, that's great. And I just wanted
to echo a couple of things that I heard um and just the comments that kevin made
I think really will be good when we work with housing um solutions network um to
so that's where we're looking at local plants. I wanted to also identify what Arlene
said um that Commissioner Allan indicated that marketing was really critical
and that was exactly what I found in Seattle that the architecture marketing implants
were the plants that were selling. And so this really sort of harkens back to that.
Um And so I almost feel that some of the uptake of the plans is really going to be
dependent upon how much information we provide to the community about them being
available.
Yeah kate. I wonder if we could uh see if HSN would
be willing or maybe a chamber cafe Orlean or something where we have a conversation
with folks like you know I mean we know housing is a uh economic development issue
or one of our largest barriers right now. Um But you know saying you know county
is interested in in potentially making it easier to build an A. D. You if you've
ever been interested in building an A. You are you considering it? We'd love some
feedback on how to make this a more possible doable. They have questions answered.
You can seek some input from folks about what their perceived barriers are. Um Just
an idea to I would love to get a little more feedback from our community on what
uh what they would be looking for. What would be helpful. I mean I'm I'm a homeowner
that would fall into that in the city a little more complicated there. Um But I think
it's it's not complicated just outside of the purview of the county. Um I would love
to get a little more information from the community on what would be useful and uh
you know most helpful to move forward. I wonder if we could do a raise of hands or
something at the I. C. G. Meeting or some kind of like instable in the tent. Under
the tent anyway. Uh Yes I just wanted to highlight
that. I was gonna we're meeting with HSN in the morning tomorrow and uh one of the
things that I can reach out to them is for their ideas as to how we could one and
I just want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly um that the utility of
the plans either for accessory or for primary use. Um
And so I know that there are a lot of people that our own land that don't have the
wherewithal to build on the land that they own. Um And so this would be a vehicle
to help those do it. Um We will also reach out I won't have time for
tomorrow but at a later date um to reach out to the four architects for them to get
an updated cost schedule if they have that available. So that that could be included
in any of the outreach that's that's conducted because I think that if you have the
plans and the cost. Um And we have a partner that can help us like HSN we might be
able to answer the questions that I heard today
any more questions or comments. We do have a public comment period on this workshop
so we want to make sure we do that before we any more questions for the experts in
the room. Gregor kate.
I don't feel like an expert but I do think um we didn't even think about how we missed
this conversation with the short term rentals conversation to, you know, we know
that um in many communities in the U. S. Have been um uh you know are often
short term rentals and um you know that that has a role in our economy to perhaps
um But uh just to be kind of promoting that at the same time that we're talking about
regulating short term rentals to get them to be mindful of how we communicate those.
Those two pieces of work. I know that Lion has funded some A. B. U. S. For long term
rentals and I'm wondering if we can't find some incentive to to encourage, you know
whether it be connecting the financing or uh you know fee reduction if you're putting
it into a rental for 10 years or what have you. But there's other policy decisions
that we might be able to control a little bit too to address the problems that we
are all concerned about and not have. Yeah. And I just wanted to
add that Mark sent me an invitation um to attend uh round table
among uh city assistant city managers and D. C. D. Directors on the North olympic
Peninsula focused on short term housing. Um um And one of the areas of
discussion uh was specific to what you just indicated that a lot of the short
term housing um is um being rented to meet the mortgage needs
of those that are building it. And so there might be a nexus. This was one of the
concerns identified is that the housing prices have escalated to such an
extent that it's almost beyond the workforce to build our own. And that this
might be a venue avenue there. Well, that that gets a county created a tiered
structure in their short term rental ordinance, where Tier one are landowners who
rent out a portion of the home that they live in and that helps them cover their
costs and Tier three or people who buy houses and don't live in the county and just
do it speculatively. So I think there are good innovations that other counties in
Washington have used to get around issues like that um in developing their policy
around short term rentals, kevin, I see your hand up, I only wanted to throw one
other um caveat in there and we discussed it for a brief period in our subcommittee
and that's the idea of boarding houses as another avenue. Um It might be that we
create a boarding house typology um that helps with agricultural farms having workers,
but also for rentals and for other um such things. So that's another typology that
we are at least aware of, that we're concentrating on with this as well, you mean
by that like a six bedroom house stock plan that could be used as a boarding house,
potentially 68 10. Again, we'd be able to draw the line. The city draws it at seven.
Um So at six right, you're gonna have six non related, 69 and then one related.
Yes.
Okay. Any other questions or comments for the planning team
in the room? Any other questions or comments from, from the planning team in the
room, Phil Brent matt kevin Arlene.
Um I think, I mean I heard it said a couple of times were supportive of of moving
forward with your proposed solution, but it sounds like there's a desire to have
um I see that Caroline sounds like there's desire to have a more um
conversation or input as to figure out what's what's actually needed in the community.
Um Either by a pool or you know, maybe everywhere we go, um choir in the leader or
something. I mean we could do any number of outreach strategies, but I am going to
make a call for public comment. Now, if there's anybody who's with us this afternoon
on the attendee list who would like to ask the question or make a comment around
stock plans or this housing conversation we've been having, please raise your hand
using the raise hand button at the bottom of your zoom screen. Mhm.
Our public attendees today have been quiet. I'm not saying any hands go up
so no public comments on this item.
Oh there goes a hand Carolyn, I bring all over bringing her over
afternoon jane. You're going to need a Knute
good afternoon. Can you hear me? We can anyway, you fix this broadband issue then
I could maybe make more. Maybe you don't want to fix it because um I think that how
do you know everybody knows the crisis and um density should be uh something we focus
on. We know that the impacts are better when we foster
dense housing situations to allow people to have a D. U. S. Or convert their barrages
or um live in low impact housing such as europe's or tiny homes I think is a terrific
avenue for the county and for the citizens. Um we start talking about restricting
short term rentals. This is a county which um benefits greatly and has a tremendous
amount to give to short term visitors. So I would like to be careful about that.
And when we're talking about a homeowner being able to make their mortgage payments
by use of short term rentals or long term rentals whatever the case may be. I think
we have to be very careful about that as well. So, thank you for your deliberations.
Commissioners have a lovely afternoon. Thank you jane. Anybody want to respond to
jean's comments
mm.
Yeah. Yeah. Just a reminder. We're really limited in the amount of density we can
have outside of urban growth areas. Um So that's one of the challenges of DNA. That
um one of the reasons why the is so important so that we do have an area where we
can drive. We are I believe we're still the only county in the state that allows
for an A. You in every residential zoning type. Yeah,
well thanks for joining us this afternoon. We will move on. We do have a hanging
chad from this morning um agenda item for that Mark had for us. So we'll let our
planning friends go and see you around the water coolers. Mhm. The
chance to give you a quick break, Katie. Sure. How about sell for 15?
Yeah, this item won't take that long. So a break would be just fine for 15.
Alright, thank you. Recording stopped
Mark and kate. Your videos are still on.
Sorry, I was just letting you know your video is still on. Yeah, thank you.
15. So I'll call us back recording in progress. Here comes a li
Yeah 4:54 15. Calling us back to order. Welcome back.
Um So we have 11 agenda item left for today and that is Mark's update on the Washington
county risk pool premium increases. Okay, thank you Commissioners. I'm
gonna share my screen. Um Mr hunsecker and I attended the center risk pool conference
in Vancouver a couple weeks ago and um it's become a habit that the has got bad news
for us every year on the insurance premium front. Um And so here's a, here's a chart
that summarizes almost all the information. I did this while I was in Maple Valley
on vacation. So it's not my best work because I left out a line on terrorism. You
see here that I, I said I had no data, but you'll see the last one of the last charts
does have terrorism information on it. But you know, in the budget guidance board
approved on August one, we reduced the increase in non personnel budgets to 1.5%
and we are holding transfers to other funds out of the General Fund to 0%. And then
you see numbers like this, um, liability and, and these, these are not exact, these
are very accurate estimates. The is in the process of getting quotes from providers.
And so we'll know the exact numbers when we get invoiced I think in October um, but
based on the, on the pretty accurate estimates, we see a 40% increase in liability,
uh, which is about $222,000 increase for the county. This isn't general fund. None
of these are General Fund. These are the total amounts for the coverage and then
we'll pay all of these out of non departmental and then the auditor subsequently
distributes them according to the formula that they use for distributing the premiums
to public health CCD public works and so on. Um, but, but you can see a
$260,000 increase, probably 170 of that. 160 of that will end up being
born by the General Fund. Um, so another bad year for insurance premiums.
So now I gotta rotate this green
and then go through these slides quickly. So a number of reasons for
liability Verdicts by, by Juries and you know, during trials for
various transgressions committed by counties have increased substantially. And you
can see that the slope of the line between 17 and 18, the increase was dramatic.
And so we're seeing aggressive attorneys. Uh, we're seeing um
nuclear verdicts, very sympathetic juries, punitive damages and all of that. And
in addition to that, you have insurance providers that are declining to provide
insurance. So there are fewer providers and whenever you have fewer providers, they
can command higher prices because you, um, you have fewer choices and who you can
ensure with. Um,
and so this is a chart that shows various types of allegations and,
and uh, you know, these are policy years. But then when, uh, when the the the claims
were incurred and down here, you can see that um, 28 claims over a
million compared to 20. Um, and then 10 claims over two million versus seven. And
then total incurred 84,000 against 65/83 million versus 65
million. And so the trends are unfavorable across the board. And so this is a chart
that shows the risk pools effort in trying to obtain quotes you can see here declined
decline. Um and then quotes that are so high they can't compete.
And so I will say though that the risk will does a fine job in sorting all this out
and getting the best deal polyp possible for its member counties
property. Um you can see that risks are are increasing and a lot of this is due to
climate change and more severe events. Uh you know things are drying out. We have
a greater wildfire risk um and then violent storms, floods and other things. And
then um everyone every month we talk about read and we talk about the cost of housing.
Well it's not just residential housing that's more expensive. It's also commercial
properties and and so the value of the properties have increased and the cost of
repairs and replacement have increased as well. And we know that because we hear
from monkey writers about the cost of building the steuer and we hear that from the
P. U. D. The cost of fiber and conduit just keeps going through the roof. And so
those are their cost pressures driving up the cost of property insurance. And then
last year we reported that previously there were 10 providers for cyber liability
I think now there we're down to two and um
um cyber breaches are becoming more common and they're becoming more expensive. And
so those are some of the cost drivers on, on cyber driving up the cost of insurance
for that. Um, they don't, they don't have quotes yet, but based on what they're hearing,
I think in the chart it was uh, I think a 17% increase for cyber.
And then um, on the first chart, I said we didn't have data for terrorism, but I
was wrong here. It is right here. Um, so for for property
Damage that was caused by terrorism, that's 12.5% increase and then liability
caused by terrorism, that's a 9% increase. And so these costs are increasing much
more rapidly than the rate of inflation and much more rapidly than our budget. Um,
at the county. Another reason for the increased cost of insurance is that the risk
pool is, has continued to raise their self insured retention. And, and that's a protective
measure for the risk pool because once we go above our deductible of 25,000 and other
counties go above their deductibles of 2 50 or half a million. Uh The risk pool covers
a layer before they go to their reinsurance and the excess layers. And so they're
trying to build their self insured retention and you can see it went to one million
and, and it's gonna continue and they're now looking at a three million self insured
retention. And so in order for them to cover those, uh, at that level, they've got
to build their reserves. And so in the red you see the statutory minimum that's to
avoid violating state law and then you have layers above that. And so they would
really like to be in the green. Um But as long as they get close to that then they're
reasonably comfortable with the risk they're assuming with that self insured retention.
And so we can expect in 2023 and beyond to see additional very large increases in
our insurance premiums for pretty much every coverage we have with the pool. Can
I add one thing here? Um So when you look at the S. I. R. S. That's driven a lot
by what the carriers will bid. They they like it they like to be above a certain
level. Uh When they when they when they come in they think that you know if you have
risk then you're gonna do more in terms of risk management to make it. So claims
don't get above the S. I. R. And so that's why a large part you're seeing an increase
in the S. I. R. It's driven by, you know who will bid on the program at a certain
level of S. I. R. Um And that carpet mark showed you earlier where
people were carriers refused but we couldn't get anybody to quote on any two million
S. Ir this year there's only they only quote on a three million S. Ir yeah it's all
about transferring risk and good point Philip the more risk the risk will takes on
itself, the more likely it is that they'll have people bid on on the the on the insurance
policies. It looks like we need to plan on going up and then get in in the future
too. Right. Yes I fully expect rate increases. Maybe maybe not 40% for liability
but certainly double digits as far as the eye can see. It looks like the trend is
going toward a five million S. I. R. So um so the risk pool have to build that uh
you know build their Build up their fund. Be able to deal with possibly higher claims.
Yeah. And one thing one thing the county needs to do is we need to look at our 25,000
deductible at the county because the lower the deductible we have the higher the
premium. And so we need to evaluate our past experience and probability of claims
going forward. And what kind of reduction in our premiums we could achieve by raising
our deductible to 5075 or 100,000. Um and so that's that's something that before
the next policy um you know 2023 we need to have a study like that completed so that
we can adjust our our deductible. Um and try to thread that needle
so that's a quick update on Risk premiums will probably need a supplemental appropriation.
3rd quarter to cover the additional cost. Thanks for the update mark. That's not
fun news. No, no you had to hear it. Um I know that Kate has somewhere to go right
at 4:30. So if there is there anything else we did get through calendar or briefing
and calen during this morning it's a miracle. Anything else that
we want to cover this afternoon the last couple of minutes. We have no thanks for
the update guys. Yeah. Yeah. Business keeps going up. Yeah. This is one of those
non discretionary items that we we can't go it alone. We need the crystals coverage.
Okay. Well then I will adjourn us for August eight and see Ya see you around the
courthouse. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone.
Recording stuff.