Recording in progress.
Yeah,
too much. I feel like this is a sitcom sometimes most days.
All right, nine o'clock reporting is ok.
Good morning, everyone. I will call this October 9th meeting of the board of county
commissioners to order Happy Indi Indigenous People's Day today. We'll have bless
you a proclamation after we're done with public comment. But we will start as we
always do with public comment and, and for folks, uh joining us today, we'll listen
to all public comments and then respond uh collectively after we've heard public
comments and we'll keep it open 930. So, uh is there anyone in the room that would
like to make public comment? Yes, I would. Great. Good morning. Good morning. I'm
Jim Scarin with Port Townsend Free Press. I'm here today to make sure the commissioners
got the invitation that was sent over your uh county email, uh inviting you to one
or all of the events we're gonna be holding around the county with citizens who are
contacting us and asking for information on the proposed uh aquatic New Aquatic Center
here in Port Townsend and the proposed taxes that are being proposed for being Countywide.
Uh The first is scheduled for October 19th at the Quilcene Community Center uh C
PM. Uh excuse me, uh community center at uh 6 p.m. um being organized uh by
gearhead deli and other citizens down there. And we're gonna be presenting information
from the 316 page packet uh that has been delivered, which is the executive summary
you got on September 25th and all the consultants reports and the minutes of the
steering committee meetings, et cetera, et cetera. The second that has been scheduled
so far is November 16th at Cala Point at the Cala Point Clubhouse.
And um you can find this on our Facebook page. Um and there's two others that I'm
waiting to hear from citizens in other locations uh that would be in the works right
now and probably more. Uh It is our hope that these to go through and provide information
that wasn't presented at the town hall, town halls and also information to the county
that didn't receive any outreach whatsoever from the steering committee in this process
yet, the proposal is to tax them. There's a lot of information there, there's a lot
of things that are not there. Uh For instance, what is the true total cost of this?
I noticed in the executive summary, you got, it said 37.1 million for the construction
cost your hard and soft costs, but that doesn't include the financing costs and in
the steering committee notes, they, it, it's clear they're looking at a 20 year bond
and they used an outdated interest rate of 4.5%. That's $20 million in interest.
But that's outdated. You're looking at 5.3 to 5.5. Now, for a bond like this was
pushes, it pushes it over 23 mil making this a $60 million project. And we're hoping
that the commissioners or Mr mcauley who's been in the steering committee, uh might
come and answer questions about this, what the actual um total interest payments
would be and any other costs that are not reported. And there also uh why the public's
not being told this another question that can't be answered from this huge packet
is about these proposed turf fields at HD Carroll Park which just popped up at the
last minute. There's no dollar figure in there is the cost for those which could
be a million dollars if you're doing a football field or a soccer field. Does that
come out of the pool? Um What does that do to the feasibility studies? How does this
thing pencil out if you're gonna add these expensive fields in last, this lodging
tax that is needed can only be imposed on those accommodations with more than 40
units. The casting committee minutes indicate that there's five including two campgrounds
in the county that would be subject to this, which, what are they perhaps you would
tell us because they have to come up with $25 million in gross revenue to raise that
$500,000 in gross receipt taxes. You're welcome to these and any other events? Thank
you very much. Thank you Mr Scarin. Ok. Anyone with us online that would like to
make public comment today, you can hit raise hand or Star Nine. If you're on the
phone, love to hear from you.
All right, see uh no one, we'll keep public comment open and turn to Heidi. Any response
to Mr Scars. I have a question. When you, when you say our, you've said a number
of times, it sounds like you're talking about an entity like a website I could review
where this information is posted. Yes. So uh the information that we would be presenting
uh the best link you can find is on the city's web page, which is called the Final
Report and it's the last entry. There's 316 pages there, s free press and free press.
I just, oh, that's the, that's what you were saying. Our, our, I was like, what's,
who's our, our would be Port Townsend, Free Press and the citizens in the communities
we're working with. Great. Thank you. All right, thanks. Thank you.
I mean, I've been also receiving a number of questions about this issue. I don't
remember receiving an invitation to these meetings, but I have a formal invitation.
Maybe it came across our, did it was it sent to Jeff Bocc.
I'm sorry, web page says to send an email that reaches all commissioners. Ok. Some
time ago I sent that and, and you may not have gotten it. So that's why I came to
you. Ok. Ok. I also didn't receive it but, um, you know, sometimes there's, I don't
know, they, they usually filter through so I'll, I'll take another look for it. Appreciate
the invitation 19th. I know that I'm an ocean shore so I will not be able to attend.
But, uh, I'll, I'll keep the, uh, try to see if I can get fit the 16th into my uh
calendar. Uh, you know, appreciate the, the, um, I guess the approach everyone's
taking and I think it's still early, you know, as, as you know, the steps to a PFD,
which I didn't even know that they had a specific TF field edition in East J Carroll
Park. No, I didn't know there was a specific idea yet. I know it was, uh, I believe
that was part of the Metropolitan Park District discussion that, um, if, if we broaden
the size of the MP D and included a county
service area that might make the MP D more palatable to say that adding, you know,
county wide amenities was to make the PFD more palatable. Well, that could be also,
I missed the meeting too while I was right. It is in your thank you on the first
So, Commissioner Dean has been the commissioner attending all these and we get very,
you know, we, we each said I just tallied all our committees on 24 to 31 committees
or issues. So, you know, we all have a big full plate and so I haven't read all the
details of it, but I have read quite a bit. Um, it's been in the newspaper and I
haven't been to any of the steering committee meetings.
Yeah. Um, I'll, I'll try to come out, I've, I've read the articles on the, uh, the
free press too, you know, still keeping abreast of the situation and, uh, you know,
the decision, the big decision in front of us, I think will be whether or not we,
uh, put it to a vote of the people, uh, if it's a PFD that they ultimately choose,
I've, I've counseled against that. Um, and I think then the big question is, when
do the, when does this, uh, election happen if it's a special election just by itself,
you know, would cost $110,000. And I'm wondering, are they talking about doing one
in April or? I think so? Do you know who was going to pay for that? I've asked the
question. Ok. Forthcoming. I'm certainly not too interested in the county absorbing
that cost for the election. Uh, but, you know, I, I encourage folks that, that oppose
it. I believe my neighbor is one of the organizers of the quill scene meeting and
I, I will, uh, continue to follow and follow it and, and stay abreast of the situation.
And I, you know, I've said it before. I think I, I tend to agree with the analysis
that we're going to see at these, uh, at these meetings. So, um, yeah, I, yep.
All right. I'll, I'll open this up for you. Thank you. Yeah.
Anyone else in the public like to make public comment today.
All right. Well, we will keep public comment open until 930
and uh we'll wait certainly for our proclamation until 930 as well, but we can take
a look at a fairly substantial consent agenda. Oh, and I do want to say that the
commissioner Dean will not be with us today as she is at her, uh, the statewide Board
of Health meeting and is not able to be in two places at one time. So, thoughts
questions about the consent agenda. Item four is massive. The call for bids for the
phase two membrane bioreactor, wastewater treatment plan for the port. He Lux sewer
is real. It's real. It's getting real people. I mean, O OVO is going to build it,
right? So I think it's the installation, right? It says, oh, no, I, I think it's
the whole thing
says construct. No, it's for the whole thing. The construction. Oh, no, it's the
canopy building. The treatment center is furnished by vivo but it's the building
that it goes in and the administration building. Yeah, lots of things exciting. Yeah.
Yeah, great news.
And, you know, lots of public works on there. A couple million dollars here. A couple
million dollars there. We were just on the west end at a community meeting and I
think they really did appreciate Eric's presentation, uh, uh, um, about all the public
works, uh, projects. And there's a big one here on Oil City Road and Upper Hoe Road.
They're getting into uh to bidding while engineering,
it looks like we're adding capacity to laser fish. Is that what this?
Um I, I don't know, this seemed to, I think it's adding more data to laser fee since
laser fee is all used up, seemed a little counter indicated from some of the other
things we were saying. Well, it won't put any more demand on licenses, but um what
we have is an access database. It's not all that stable. And um upgrading from one
version to another version of access is a risky endeavor. And rather than rely on
um that somewhat archaic um system for tracking documents, we want to migrate um
to our um enterprise document management system which is Laser Fish. And we got a
grant from the Secretary of State to pay for the work. And so um we view this as
a good move. Um Now as it relates to licenses for laser fish, we're looking into
uh increasing the number available. So members of the public aren't confronted with
that message saying, wait your turn. Yeah, when someone gets off, you can get on
kind of thing. Um And we're also meeting to talk about um local storage because um
in some applications were critical mass on storage. And like I mentioned last week,
we're migrating Barracuda to the cloud which will free up local space and we need
to identify other candidates for migration to the cloud because terabytes in a large
data center are much cheaper than terabytes here. Data adds up fast, especially with
all the video and I'm all in favor. I mean, we've seen what happens when we don't
get data converted appropriately or if we wait too long. So absolutely in favor of
it, it just uh make sure we have room for it. Yeah.
Good to see the I guess it was just an adjustment to the Chickadee Forest. We no
real change, right? Just correcting a previous decision. Excellent to see uh a new
uh to be able to point a new member to the noxious weed board. I'm really happy that
Doctor Thomas Beman is uh stepped up. It's great.
So what we just have one, one left district four. I'm gonna sign up, man. I do it,
Greg. I've got the forms ready to go actually. Ok. Hey Janet.
Oh yeah. Come up to the microphone. We'd love to hear. It's an actual Yeah. OK. I
just Um So what we have is we have 3000 physical boxes in the storage units and 60
right? Um And so this, it's just basically a straw man in laser fish. It won't take
up any data because we won't be saving documents there. We'll just be saving the
location to them. So if that helps the road map, so that helps a lot of things. No
increase in storage, the training,
no looks good. I will move to approve the consent agenda for October 9th 2023. All
right, I will second it and call the question all in favor of approving the consent
agenda as presented. Indicate by saying, hi, hi, hi. All right. That is done. I'll
turn back to the public and see if anyone else has moved to comment today. We would
love to hear from you.
See anyone raising their hand, you can raise hand or start an iron if you're on the
phone. All right. Well, we've got a busy day. So let's take this opportunity to dig
into uh briefing and maybe even calendaring. And if anyone is moved, please raise
your hand and we'll keep an eye on it and bring you over. You wanna take a look back
hay.
Um Sure, let's see. So last, last week, um it was with
here with you all on Monday and Wednesday and Thursday. Then at the end of the day
I met with um Chief strategy Officer Brent Butler to talk about outreach regarding
Port Hadlock urban growth area, zoning um kind of all as part of the phase one sewer
boundary work. And the question of um warehousing can be built within that phase
one boundary. And so I think we're gonna uh coordinate a couple of community outreach
meetings to come. Good morning. So glad you're here. Um A couple of community outreach
outreach meetings to uh solicit community input on those. Um And then on Tuesday,
I spent most of the day with my Marine Resources colleagues doing interviews for
a couple of vacant positions and we had a number of great applicants and we will
have new appointments to the Marine Resources Committee in short order. Yeah. Really
great folks um raising their hands and coming to the table. And then that evening,
Tuesday evening, I had the Marine Resources Committee meeting in Point Hudson and
then on Wednesday and Thursday, we were all in um budget workshop meetings 2024 25
budget budget departmental presentations for the budget. So I think all the work
now is on Mark's plate over there to deal with. Still got stuff on it. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, we've got to do the board and county administrator budgets, but I'm meeting
with staff tomorrow to plan that out. So probably Monday of next week. Ok. Yeah.
And then I popped into the was a federal issues and relations committee for um
priority setting. We were working on setting our priorities Friday morning, I kicked
off the morning with three back to back meetings, one with Mark and our consultant,
helping with inter gov, super impressive um woman and project management deep in
project management experience clearly is what we need on this um process at this
point and we came up with a few next steps. Um but I, you know, I, I was trying to
get to winner. The winner, customer is gonna be able to look at their permit information
online and we're probably still 6 to 8 months out from that really being functional
is what Sherry said. But we have a number of near term and interim steps that will
make this whole process much more functional. And it sounds like there were just
some part parts of it that were really effectively transitioned and other parts that
weren't. And so we really need the whole thing to be smooth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,
um stay tuned on that front. We're gonna have a meeting with the core team about
this inter gov transition and Mark's gonna work with it regarding our current storage
capacity issues. And then we're meeting with the key consultant to talk about the
migration and um cleaning of the data that needs to happen.
So let's see what else. And then we had our Jefferson Transit Finance Committee meeting
after that and then I had um a meeting with DNR, a number of DNR staff about Deba
Bay Natural area expansion. That's not the current expansion, it's the future potential
expansion. So, um they're just finally turning their heads to look at that opportunity
and then I left for the west end and was with you guys all out there um for our evening
meeting at the whole Tribal Center. It was no great meeting. It was a great meeting.
All right, thank you very much Heidi. And I'll just let our guests know we'll do
the proclamation right at 930. So we'll just finish up our public comment and, and
uh you know, kill time, but really, really glad that you guys are here. Are you both
from the Port gamble? Cum? Ok, great. I really appreciate it. Um My week was very
similar to Heidi's uh with you all here on Monday and then rushed out to a recompete
meeting. Um as we really scrambled for letters of support, I got quite a few compliments
about some of the letters of support from uh Jefferson County. They were very specific
and uh directed and I was like, well, thank you, chat GP T. Um And
then Tuesday, you know, it was letters of support all day long and uh finalizing
the grant applications on Wednesday and Thursday budget meetings with everyone
here. I thought they were fantastic. Uh You know, a lot of good. It's always great
to get kind of behind uh behind the veil, just what some of the departments that
we don't have a lot of interface with are are doing and planning and yeah, it's a
two year every two year deal and so a lot can happen, right? Or not happen or not
happen. Yeah, as the case. Uh yeah. Um and then more recompete Wednesday evening,
Thursday was also budget and then went out to catch the end of the parks and rec
volunteer appreciation at HJ Carroll Park. And that was uh lovely. Um I missed most
of the big, the big group, but I guess they had 3040 people there. They're volunteers
and Peninsula Trails was there as well. Um Went to meet the constituents after that
and then in the morning met with a couple of folks from 03 A about, you know, the
senior nutrition contract being canceled with the cap and some of the ramifications
of that. I got a lot of uh closure for myself. Um uh More we compete stuff
and then pretty early in the afternoon, headed out to the West End for our community
outreach meeting the Tribal Center. Uh I would say not a lot of people were there,
not the fewest of any of our meetings. Um I think that's port towns in the area,
but it was a really great conversation I thought, yeah, super dynamic. And we had
folks up from Queens Clearwater and Oil City and the ho so it was, we had the right
people in the room that had a lot of knowledge to talk. And I love the one story
about the assessor, uh um having to go praise a property by canoe and found no people
living there, only horses. And then the guy that would have been feeding the horses
with at the meeting and then Wendy Davis was there with animal rescue, getting the
horses um, off to a, to a safe place. So, yeah, the whole, the whole evening, that's,
that's how I remember the evening. Lots of connected conversations that were pretty
rich, so good, good times. And, uh, that was my week mark. You wanna, I know
it's probably with us in budget all week, but you wanna take us through your last
week. Uh Sure. Uh, yeah. Right Monday with the board, um, on
Tuesday. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm in the wrong week. Uh, had senior management, uh, team
meeting, followed by, uh, risk management. And then, um, I took the audit team, um,
uh, Barb Ferguson, Stacy, Prada, Judy Shepherd, um, Brenda Hunting Ford and, uh,
Noi from, um, our chief accountant, um, took them out to celebrate the fine audit
result, um, clean audit on the financial side. Excellent. Um, and then Wednesday,
Thur and Thursday, uh, budget meetings all day and then on Friday,
um, my weekly with, um, oh, actually, you know, it was, um, Sherry and Heidi, um,
at eight o'clock, Heidi covered that meeting pretty well. Um, a very deep dive into
enter gov and all the issues and then um left at 11 o'clock uh for travel to the
West end and the community outreach meeting at six. Excellent. All right. Um
Anyone else who call, go back to the public? We've got six minutes left in public
comment. Would anyone like to make public comment today? Bless you.
I don't see anyone there. All right, we'll keep it open till 930 take a quick look
forward before we uh welcome our guests up at, at 930 for our proclamation celebrating
Indigenous People's Day today. Do you want me to look forward? Yes, please. So I
would say I was just looking back briefly. My, my high point of last week was I um
crawled in today, Bob Bay. It was so sunny on Saturday afternoon and hot down on
the bay that I was like, I'm getting in the bay and a bunch of my friends. We all
got in the bay and it was just so fun. It was just summer continues. It felt like
it felt wild. Um So that was Saturday and then, um
let's see to today, obviously here with you guys and then I'm planning on going out
to the solid waste artist and residency reveal this afternoon at the transfer station.
Can't wait 5 to 6. Yeah. Um Tomorrow we have a check in about the Chimi Creek
Drainage District. I'm meeting with um some of our staff over at D CD about planning
for our UG a meeting in Port Hadlock coming up. I have Tourism Coordinating coordinating
Council in the afternoon and then I'm going to the Chemic School Library open house.
Um later in the afternoon tomorrow, Wednesday morning. We have, oh, I think. No,
no. Ok, Wednesday morning, we have um a meeting of our leadership team for the Olympic
Peninsula Tourism Master Plan Project. I am having a discussion with Anna
mckenry and Acelyn Palmer about the Behavior Health Advisory Committee and um alternates
just so we're sure that we always have a quorum for that. So we're coming up with
a strategy. I'm gonna have my best moments of the, the week Wednesday afternoon with
my goddaughter, Lila. And then I might be going to another Olympic Peninsula Tourism
Master Plan meeting um that evening and then Thursday, I have a meeting with a constituent
constituent to talk about L A
and Friday all day. I have a community foundation retreat.
So that's my week ahead. All right, I can go quickly, fairly light on the scheduled
items. Actually, I will also be joining you and I think my family is joining too
to go see the art installation unveiling at the solid waste transfer station. I can't
wait to see it tomorrow. I think I might have an a phantom of a meeting for the left
one retirement meeting which I think has been moved to next Tuesday, but I'll have
to double check on that been meeting with Tammy porny and we have the Quilcene Brennan
and Power Teens Coalition Tuesday afternoon. On Wednesday the 11th. I have an ORCA
board meeting, the Clean Air Agency, preceded by the finance committee meeting. The
chair is the vice chair and then, uh, headed out to make dinner for my folks in Tacoma
before school Wednesday afternoon and then Thursday and Friday. I strangely have
nothing on my schedule right now. So, on Saturday, I'm going down to the uh uh Brennan
Canal tracks, uh ho a meeting to talk with them about issues that I will be probably
not entirely surprised, but I can, I don't know exactly what we're gonna be talking
about. And that is my week mark. Can you take uh take us through your upcoming week?
And uh do Greg you mentioned finance committee? Oh, that's the uh or a finance committee.
Sorry. Yeah, I don't think we have a county finance committee. I I'm looking at,
ok. Well, today was bored. Um So tomorrow at nine, I'm meeting with uh Phil CRE to
talk about ramping up the fire marshal program. Um A lot of work to do in getting
that function up and running fully. Uh Then the Chimica Creek uh drainage District
check in that Heidi mentioned. And then I'm meeting with Carolyn and Judy Shepherd
uh to talk about Bocc and county administrator budgets and then a meeting at two
o'clock in the afternoon. Um And I also
uh yeah, and then on Wednesday, uh get my stitches out. I'm excited about that. Then
uh one o'clock, the North Olympic Peninsula City Manager, county administrator, uh
quarterly catch up session. And then I will finally be able to attend one of the
childcare uh meetings with the Y MC A and Jefferson health Care. Then on
Thursday, um I'm involved with fleet interviews for the fleet manager. Um We have
a couple of candidates to, to interview and I'm hoping that one of them will meet
our standards so that we can replace Lou Johnson who left at the end of August and
then on Friday, um I'm attending the, uh, Cindy Brooks, our E DC, uh, executive director.
She has a CEO of breakfast periodically. Uh It's a good catch up session with local,
uh, chief executives and then my weekly with Josh and then fair amount of time to
get some administrative work done. So that's it for me. All right. Excellent. Thank
you, Mark. I'll make one last call for public comment. If there's anyone with us
that would like to make public comment, you can hit raise hand or star nine if you're
on the phone.
All right. So, you know, one, I will close public comment and, uh, we will move into
our, our recognition of an indigenous people's day today and thank you so much to
members of the Jamestown Clallam and, and, and uh, Port Gamble Clallam tribe that
have joined us today and our usual practice is to read the proclamation, uh, adopt
it and then invite you guys up to share any thoughts or hopefully a song. It would
be lovely. I don't know, but really appreciate you being with us today. Um Shall
we, shall we jump into it? Yeah, you guys, you guys were, we were here last year
too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Lonnie Lonnie Granger from the Jamestown here. Yes, thanks
so much. Ok, So come on in
Holy Moly. This was my chief, civil deputy prosecuting attorney.
Nice. Well, you guys were coming a little bit, but it's good. It's, you wanna make
public comments? Ok. All right. So we will, I'm sorry about that.
Yeah. No, that's OK. Flash from the past. That's great. Oh, great, welcome. There
is in the Macaw tribe with us as well. We are just uh jumping in here. Thanks so
much for being here. Uh We are going to read through the proclamation and uh adopt
it and then we will turn it over to our, our, our tribal uh neighbors and partners
uh to uh hopefully sing a song and I'm really, really glad that you're here, literally
our neighbors, literally our Oh, yeah. Some of these guys are literally across the
street. Yeah. All right. Um Why don't I go 1st and 2nd. And this is a proclamation
officially recognizing Monday October 9th, 2023 as Indigenous People's Day in order
to promote respect and represent in order in order to promote respect and representation,
to honor and celebrate the rich culture and treaty rights of indigenous people, to
combat prejudice and discrimination and to promote healing from the violence of American
colonization of indigenous peoples and their land. Whereas Jefferson County Washington
recognizes its boundaries occupy the ancestral lands of the slams, Clallam K Ho Quinault
and Skoko tribal nations and that other tribal peoples have resided, traveled through
and camped in these lands since time in memorial. And whereas the county seat Port
Townsend is located on ancestral lands of the slams clown who call the area kai.
Whereas Jefferson County honors the point no point in Quinault River Treaties as
well as historic rights of tribes as sovereign nations. Additionally, we participate
in good faith consultation and gover government to government relations. And whereas
the county values the many contributions indigenous people have made to our community
with their knowledge, philosophy, arts and the deep cultural influences which have
shaped our county. And whereas Jefferson County recognizes that systemic racism towards
indigenous peoples perpetuates high rates of poverty, income inequality, health,
health education and social crises and endeavors to remove these barriers. And whereas
recent events such as the COVID-19 pandemic have shed light on the persistent structural
racism in this country resulting in disparities in health outcomes suffered by black
indigenous and people of color by a and whereas the idea of Indigenous Peoples Day
was first proposed in 1977 to the United Nations sponsored International Conference
on discrimination against indigenous populations in the Americas. And whereas in
2011, the affiliated tribes of Northwest Indians, representing 59 tribal nations
passed resolution 1157 to support to change Columbus Day to Indigenous People's Day.
And thank God, whereas Jefferson County joins a growing number of counties that have
recognized the second Monday of October as Indigenous People's Day, creating an opportunity
to promote learning, healing, appreciation, understanding, friendship and partnership
among all peoples. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Jefferson County Board
of County commissioners does hereby proclaim this second Monday in October 2023 as
Indigenous Peoples Day in Jefferson County and encourage all to celebrate the thriving
cultures and values of the indigenous peoples of our region. To learn more about
the history of indigenous peoples and their cultures and to continue efforts to promote
the well being of our indigenous communities. Approve this ninth day of October 2023.
All right. Yes. Um Well, uh I welcome a motion. I would move to
approve this proclamation for October 9th being Indigenous Peoples Day. Great. I'm
happy to second and I know that Kate Deane who really did most, most of the invitations
to coordinate. She really wanted to be here. She has to be at a State Board of Health
meeting today. That's the only thing that I think could have dragged her away because
this is I believe her favorite day of the year. Um All right, it's been moved and
seconded to approve October 9th as Indigenous People's Day 2023. All in favor indicate
by saying II I um great. Yes. Thank you so much for being here and uh I guess we'll
welcome the pork Clallam, Port Gamble Clallam. Would you guys uh like to come up
to the microphone or altogether? However, I mean, we're turning it over to you. Ok.
Hello, Teresa. And I see Lonnie Rymer on the, on the, on the line. Thank you for
being with us. Be safe. Hi, Teresa. Hi, great to see you. Great seeing you. Um
First of all, I want to thank uh Jefferson County for allowing us to be here this
morning. Good morning. My name is Teresa Rose Lehman. I'm Jamestown Tribal Council.
My family name is K Kony and we always honor our family
name and you will notice that today. I am here to represent Indigenous People's Day.
This day commemorates and honors our beautiful history, tradition and culture on
these lands and, and lands afar too. Currently, we are
standing and we represent three Clallam tribes, Jamestown, Port gamble and lower
wa
when we step aside and look around at the beauty our creator has given
us. It reminds ourselves we are the caretakers and have been appointed to represent
and honor these lands. Jamestown wishes to acknowledge our county commissioners and,
and Jefferson County for making this annual proclamation
Hutchinson. And it's a good day.
Thank you,
Laura pres now
and over here um
and Swa Joseph Price needs. Um Yeah, Nate, I am Sin. So my name is Laura
Price. This is my husband Joe Price. Um We're from Port Gamble School Allum. I just
wanted to take a minute and um acknowledge and witness that I hold my hands up high.
I want to thank this board, this Jefferson County for helping or to for
formally recognizing and making the effort to build upon the relationships and to
begin the healing that this land deserves and the people who call it home deserve.
And I do admire greatly, I've watched for years um making efforts to include the
Skala, the sky and uh to be able to feel like we, we are welcomed back to these lands
that we came from. Um I do know Kai is a, is an important place. It is
a, a village that was in the heart of our territories. It was a place that a lot
of people came through and we were able to share our culture and share our are um
gathering places with lots of people, lots of friends and family. But I am really
just honored that we can be here even though there's only a few of us, we represent
many um There are some other events that people are attending today, but we just
want to thank you for inviting us to be here to acknowledge this proclamation. And
that is very important and we um hold our hands up at Nixon
Oom. Uh That's, we just surprise you. It's I am, I raised my hands up to everyone
here today. Um Like I've said before, when we come here, you know, it wasn't too
long ago. We weren't allowed to be here in this, in this town and I raised my hands
up for you recognizing that we can, we are here. We're still alive and we speak our
language. We sing our songs. We're letting our ancestors know that we're still here.
And we went down to a museum on a Saturday where there's a exhibit and we, and we
sang, there's an exhibit for the clowns in there and we sang for them and, you know,
it just makes me feel really good when we sing in, in these buildings that are here.
So I know there's probably stuff that happened here. And um that's the, the songs
that we sing are healing. They are prayers. So I'm gonna do a song here. It's my
grandma song. And I've mentioned before that my mom was actually born here in Port
Town. But um this song is my grandma song and I use it as a prayer song. So, um you,
you're gonna uh kind of bless this place here.
Hello?
Mhm
Who?
Oh He mm
Yes.
Mm
So,
oh, we see. Hey, hey,
we tell and say
oh to win.
Oh
oh
oh Yeah. Oh Ok. Mhm.
Who, who? Oh, yeah. Um,
hey,
yes, only.
Mhm.
Oh.
Oh,
yeah. Yeah. Mhm. And say,
oh,
yeah.
Oh,
a hey, hey, hey.
Oh. Mhm. In the, oh,
so the words are, um, I love you. My grandma and I know without our grandmothers,
our grandfather's prayers, we wouldn't be here today so hot. And
thank you so much, Teresa Laurie Joseph. It was wonderful. Um, I don't know, Lonnie.
Is there anything that you wanted to add? Yeah, beautiful words shared this morning
to our representatives who are there in person? Thank you, Teresa Joe Laura for being
there for us. I'm unfortunately, on my, well, fortunately, unfortunately, I'm doing
a good thing. I'm on my way to Yakima uh for specific salmon kind of free. Uh We're
gonna be talking with local farmers, the governor's office today. So even though
it is Indigenous People's Day, the work still continues. So it's, it's good. But
I think the only thing I would add is something good that we can add to the proclamation
last year. And I, I can't believe we didn't think about it in the last couple of
years. We should add a statement in there about how the city and I believe the county
supported it as well. It was in 2019. I mean, where you guys reversed the ordinance
that, that forced our people out. I want to say that I think the mayor at the time
even condemned it and there was some good language in there. So maybe we should add
that to next year's proclamation. And just thinking that Jefferson County commissioners,
you guys are always so supportive of us. You guys are good allies, good partners
to us. So I raised my hands in gratitude. Thank you. Thank you, Lonnie. All right.
Um Love to invite the Macaw tribe and I don't know Walter or whoever to, to say a
few words or uh thank you very much for being here.
Hello?
Well,
yeah.
Mm He it
Oh Well.
Hey.
Mm
mhm
Hey
is for mhm
My name is Luo.
I come from BBA. Us come from what? Why come from Lee book?
Come from Haste. You come from Flew off. That's our house, that's my house.
These people that I come from are the ones that
lived through the unfortunate way we were treated that were strong enough to
continue on.
We all have this in our path. We all have our family. We've heard those stories
and every year as we get stronger, every year as we, our relationship improves
is a step in a better direction. The song I sung my
grandfather came to him when we got our rosette village back and you have
touched my heart.
I will always remember this day. I will always remember this song.
We have different stories. We have different creations, but we all have that one
history that combines us and I'm grateful that
you're making that step. You're making that reaching that handout in acknowledging
that we're still here. We're still strong. We know our family, we know our history.
So today I thank you for inviting us Leo Leo.
Wow. Thank you guys so much for the honor of, of being here with us. You, I don't
know. It's, I'm overwhelmed Heidi. Well, I just wanna say thank you for sharing your
home with us. I mean, thank you for being our good neighbors. And um
um I was out at the coast for a Olympic Coast sanctuary meeting in Nia Bay three
weeks ago and went to the Macaw Museum and was reminded of the story of the Os that
village and um completely
took my breath away really um
amazed by your history and your strength as a people and honored to be your neighbor.
Very honored to be all of your neighbor. Thanks. Um And you know, my education on
the relations between our peoples is really just beginning. I'm in school right now
and one of the, one of the textbooks is an indigenous People's History of America.
And it really dropped the scales from my eyes of kind of assumptions that we make
about how we got to be where we are. And um it's incumbent upon us to educate ourselves
on how we got here and how we can move forward. And uh Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz ends
her book with a bit from the poem. Uh Simon Ortiz in a coma poet. And I'd like to
also share that with you. The future will not be mad with loss and waste. Though
the memory will be there. Eyes will become kind and deep and the bones of this nation
will mend after the revolution. So thank you guys for continuing to help us mend
the break that uh that uh our people rot. So um I really appreciate
uh the partnership with, with, with Macaw and the Clallam and the other tribes that
have been in this land since time immemorial. So, thank you so much for being here
today
and Lonnie, thank for you. Thank you for your, your salmon work today. I grew up
in a salmon fishing family and I'm very grateful to our salmon brothers and sisters
and um, believe that we need to do all we can to restore habitat and bring the salmon
back to our region. So, um grateful for your work today. Can we thank you so much?
Thank you, Lonnie. And can we get a couple of photos to memorialize it? Let's ok.
Yeah.
Some of the podium on the,
I don't know where we could go. Right. Oh, yeah, it's pretty nice.
I know.
Yeah, he gonna be in the front line. All right, great. Well,
I'll say 123 and my new portrait mode
bill. You should have a cape picture of Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, absolutely. We'll get it signed right now and and write it down and, and, and
you guys can both get a copy of the. I know Kate wanted to sign it, but.
Ok, great. All right, let's get this. Uh Do we have the proclamation ready? Carolyn?
Ok, I understand the tracks.
Can you, can you put my official seal on
and, and do a pro to line for Kate? There's not much room there but please check.
Ok, you guys, I'll hand right now. All right, thank you.
Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse absence. She's not here. So we have, uh, she can't approve.
Can we do two copies of it? Yeah. Um, so, um, after we sign this, um, um, please
bring it to the commissioner's office down the hall. It's the last uh, office on
the right and they'll put the official county seal on it and then make copies for
everyone. Ok.
Thanks so much for taking time today. Guys,
my granddaughter who just graduating from high school,
all chemical member busy last Monday night at their meeting.
So my granddaughter is the one who accepted the information. So.
Oh, great. Yeah, I'm still, I'm doing an MP A program and they have a tribal governance.
That's a really strong program down there. So it's uh evergreen. Yeah, they have
a good program. Cool. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you. Enjoy your day. You
throw you.
Ok.
Ok. Um Let's see. We can uh, yeah, busier afternoon. I think it's gonna be
right up against 430 probably.
I have a 1030 workshop.
L tech, L tech L tech all the time.
Well, should we, um is there anything else we need to attend to? That's not on the
agenda. And I had, I had a schedule,
took a 15 minute recess. Sure. All right. Let's do a 20 minute recess. We'll come
back at 1015, preparation of the 1030 workshop recording in progress.
All right. welcome back. I'll call us back into session and we'll wait for a moment
or two to start our hearing at uh 230 as scheduled
222. Um Well, you can invite Josh over in case he has anything to add. I think Brent
will be our primary contributor. Hello, Brent. Hello. We're just kind of
coming into, back into session and so I'll uh introduce the hearing and then pass
it over to you for a staff presentation. Is that right? Yes. Thank you, Commissioner
Brotherton. Thank you. So we'll just, oh, prevaricate for a few minutes here.
Are you going to the til festival? Commissioner? I'm not, I have a training to go
to an Olympiad and, but I am gonna do the radio show T or that. Oh, yes.
Are you going to the festival? I, I was just looking at the schedule. I do have a
little flexibility too. I see there's a whole track dedicated to biochar, artificial
intelligence, you know, farmers bio, you know, biochar, they're talking about using
it to make roads into inductive chargers. If you're driving down the road, you can
charge your car with the friction. Ok. Fascinating. Um,
oh, well, it's not quite there but I'm, uh, I, I'd love to go there. I still need
to know who to bring to the radio this week. I'm not sure any ideas. Um,
talk a little about any of these.
What about the C Pacer program? What about something that people don't know anything
about? Could, uh, do the C Pacer program? I think anyone that is potentially it applies
to knows about it. But maybe, yeah, I don't know, maybe C Pacer. Let's see what kind
of, uh hearing response we have. Um, actually international building codes. That's
what you should do. All right. Talking about how about take care and talk about that
for that. Yeah, that was, that was popular. But I think, I think the building codes
are significantly different. I think I've already chosen. Sorry. Thank you. Thank
you for talking it through with me. But I'm gonna see if Phil. Phil is around. But
uh there's some pretty significant impacts that we're gonna be discussing in our,
our 3:30 p.m. hearing, uh, that are going to, I'm sure make us safer, but we'll also
make it more costly to build. And I think understanding people to talk to us about
that. I do too. I didn't talk to the building trades to see if they were going to
be here, but hopefully they're hip to it.
All right.
What was that? Mm.
It's an alarming amount of dead air in today's meeting. I don't know. I was gonna
bring my banjo regretting. I didn't, I should just keep one in the chambers. I could
fill this, this, this dead air with some. Everyone can play it because you just hum
into it, you know, just hum a little ditty.
All right. Oh, we still have two minutes.
See if we have any that might wanna talk to the, oh, Phil's already there. Hey, Phil.
Can you come on the radio with me on Friday?
I'm putting you on the spot. He's probably not even sitting at his desk.
Hello, Phil. I'm using, filling our dead air with inviting you to join me on the
radio if you'd like to on Friday. 12 months. Oh, absolutely. Sorry about that. I
was, uh, yeah, I'm not here in the lobby. How's it going? 00, you can come in. We're,
we're back in session if you're, you're here in the lobby of the cha, at the courthouse.
No, no, I'm at D CD lobby. I was just about to go in the courthouse. Oh, ok. Well,
we'll see you here but I, I'll talk to you more about it when you're here. But, uh,
it'd be great. I think we're the hearing at 330 has some really significant changes
and I think, uh, going over those on the radio would be really helpful if you're
up for it.
Absolutely. Yeah, I'm down for that. Ok. Well, I'll, I'll let you go so you can make
your way back over. I appreciate. Thank you. We'll see you, see you shortly. All
right, she's ready now.
Ok. We are going to begin a scheduled hearing. Um, we're going
to, this is a public hearing, uh, to, uh, about adopting a new chapter of the Jefferson
County code chapter 15.20 to establish a Jefferson County commercial property assessed,
clean energy and resilience Sea Pacer program. So welcome everyone to this hearing.
We are, this public hearing is now open regarding establishing a Jefferson County
commercial property assess clean energy and resilience program. Hereafter known as
C Aer, if you join this meeting via the phone and wish to provide hearing testimony,
please stay on the line. You'll be provided an opportunity to speak during public
testimony. Likewise, if you've joined us on Zoom today, our A V capture is not working,
so you would not be able to join us that way anyways, we don't have anyone in the
chambers presently and we didn't receive any testimony beforehand. Um But before
we open for public testimony, we will listen to a staff presentation uh from our
Chief Strategy Officer Brent Butler. So take us through what we're we're considering
at this hearing, please, Mr Butler. Thank you.
I'm gonna share my screen.
Don't forget to turn off that little hide. Yeah, great,
great. Uh This is a brief presentation on the C Pacer uh program and um C Pacer stands
for commercial property assessed, clean energy and resiliency. Um In my agenda, I'll
just cover the background, the ordinance overview accompanying uh documents overview
uh questions or changes requested and a recommendation. Um The C Pacer program, as
I indicated is the uh commercial property assessor, clean energy and resiliency uh
uh program. Um Is it required? Um No, this is a voluntary statewide program. And
in the agenda request that I I have identified that there are five other counties
uh currently that have adopted um um a program in accordance with the Act. And what
are the standards? The C Pacer program requirements are codified in RCW
36.165 and that outlines the standards and requirements. What projects are
envisioned? I think it's really important to note energy and water efficiency, electrification
improvement. Uh um renewable energy, electric vehicle charging,
uh seismic hardening. And that really is ensuring that, you know, we just had an
earthquake a couple of kilometers from Marist Stone Island, ensuring that our buildings
um that are multifamily fiber plus commercial properties. Agriculture are uh
seismically resilient fire detection and suppression, flood readiness, uh storm water
management and uh energy storage among others. Why adopt well, sea Pacer implements
important water and energy conservation goals. It spurs rehabilitation and preservation
and it implements uh the uh climate action committee goals. And I think it's really
important to highlight preservation. I I just attended the Housing Washington Conference
and the one area that uh there's a dearth of funding is preservation and this is
one of the few tools available to us. Are there fiscal or capacity considerations?
Yes. Um We delayed implementation of this until we sought to first see if one of
our um one of the adopting counties would be willing to administer the program on
our behalf and having found that they also were experiencing capacity um
difficulties. Um We have uh through our third party uh uh um our uh
competitive bidding process, I identified a third party S CJ alliance that will serve
as the county program administrator as outlined in the agenda request. Uh Does the
community support it? Yes, it's evidence by the community. Uh Excuse me, the uh Climate
Action Committee letter of support and public comment at p prior meetings. And in
those prior meetings, we heard from Hastings Estate Bayside housing and uh I believe
um Commissioner Brotherton identified that uh um the Port Ludlow Associates also
expressed an interest in this project,
the ordinance, a quick overview of it. Um We have 10 sections um and these sections
are really identify some of the critical components. Uh First and foremost, um The
first uh section identifies that the program is established and in that um it
does um discuss um where uh the program is housed in the revised code of Washington.
It also talks about the fact that um what types of services um may
be offered and may not be offered or advertised. And then um we have the definitions
and we did find an error in the definitions and I'll discuss that briefly. Um There's
the process, application process, the assessment agreement of the assignment and
the financing arrangements. And so, um most importantly, we do have an accompanying
uh program guidebook with all of the forms and there is a change that were also identified
as necessary in one of the forms.
So this is the overall list of the eight documents accompanying the guidebook. And
uh the application checklist is really important to make sure that an applicant is
submitting all of the documents. And why I wanted to highlight that is that we found
that um an inordinate amount of unnecessary expenditure of time has uh been accrued
by other governments when it's not complete. So this checklist helps those applicants
understand what does a complete submental look like? Uh the lien holder uh consent,
um the certification of qualified improvements, you know, just what type of improvement
is being done. And we often have to have an engineer certify that it is an improvement
that meets the um the standards of the Act and, and then um the certificate, the
certificate of capital provider qualification. So that's qualifying the capital provider,
the, the lender of, of the, of the financing the assessment agreement for C Pacer
financing. So what is that assessment? And, and how is that going to be carried out
the notice of assessment interest? Um, and the C Pacer lien that, um, um, is the
collateralization of that um, uh debt and then the assignment of notice of assessment
interest and the C Pacer leaning assessment agreement. And then finally the certificate
of C Pacer improvements completion, that's when you got the go, you've completed
um the improvements and um we've identified that uh they have met the standards required
by uh the international um uh building code or the international residential code.
In most cases, they think this will always fall under the international building
code. So one of the first changes is we wanted to amend the C Pacer Agreement and
the program documents to contain the county standard indemnity language which includes
employees, volunteers and their marital communities. Another change is we would like
to remove 15.20 0.0109 department as duplicated department
appears twice in the definitions and we would need to renumber the section so that
they are corrected accordingly
at this juncture. I um I think we've already opened the public hearing and I, I would
encourage the commissioners to move ahead with uh public testimony and then um closing
the hearing uh deliberating and adopting the ordinance as amended by those two changes
uh requested. Thank you. Great. Any questions Heidi. Before we get going through
all the materials for this one. All right. Um One question I had, Brent is, you know,
we were approached by some, I think preservation developers uh really initially about
this, uh adding this program to our capacity in the county and the I think the advantage
that, that this uh the kind of the climate friendly programs allow them to do is
get more. Um I'm not sure if it was easier financing to obtain or, or a more competitive
rate. Can you, can you speak a little bit to what the impacts for applicants uh might
be with this program? Yes, I think one of the most significant things, I believe
that most commercial properties are sort of um linked to the 10 year Treasury note.
And so um if you have a commercial debt, that means that at the 10 year point, you're
gonna have to refinance this debt. And so there's this refinance risk that commercial
property owners are facing in 10 years, unlike commercial mortgages, we all know
that getting a 30 year locked in is a good thing. And so this enables that debt to
be amortized over a longer period. This is really significant. So if you have a commercial
property, you don't have to worry. Oh my God, my 10th year is coming up. I can advertise
it over 30 years. That's big news. So II I think that it will have a benefit for
a lot of the the property owners, agricultural property owners in our community.
Great. Thank you for that. Ok. Well, with that, uh as your elected officials,
we want to hear your testimony on this issue. Is this issue, your testimony will
help inform our deliberations and decisions. I'll now open the hearing to listen
to your public testimony. If you join the meeting via the Zoom link, you please click
on the raised hand icon located at the bottom of your screen to raise your hand and
you'll be brought over as a Panelist and asked to unmute and share your video. If,
if you wish, there can be a short delay when transitioning to Panelist if calling
in by phone, hit star nine to raise your hand and then number six star six to unmute.
Um and you're probably not going to be listening to the live stream. But if you are,
you need to mute your playback. So as not to create feedback and uh as a reminder
because this is public testimony, you'll need to identify yourself and uh your place
of residence. So with that, we would love to hear your testimony on consideration
of uh of this uh ordinance to adopt the Sea Pacer program.
I'm not seeing any raised hands, but we would love to hear your, your testimony about
this, this program C Pacer.
Mhm People are feeling as quiet as we are today. Yeah, it's a quiet day. It's the,
the seasonal shift.
Yeah. Sad seasonal affective disorder.
I'll make another call. If anyone was with us online, we have no one in the chambers
with us and would like to make a testimony on this, uh, consideration of this Sea
Pacer ordinance. We would love to hear from you.
Ok. Uh, I'll make a last call. If anyone has moved to testify, we would love to hear
from you and I see no one. So I will. Well, I mean, I let me,
should we, do we, do you see any reason to keep this open until next week for uh
I mean, I, I've not heard any objection from Kate or anything. Ok. Yeah, she's supportive.
Yep. Ok. I will close the hearing and we will uh
um
yeah, deliberate and make a decision. So what do you think Heidi from all of the
input and testimony we received over the last year about this? It seems like this
is a good thing for folks in our county as long as we're not using up our capacity,
it's pretty much a no brainer. So, and it's gonna be neutral cost going forward because
it'll be the, they, they will pay the consultant essentially to uh activate the program.
Um Yeah, I can't, I don't, yeah, I don't see a downside on this one. I don't see
a downside either. So I'm happy to make a motion. Ok. I'm happy to make a
motion to adopt a new chapter of the Jefferson County code. Chapter 15.20 to establish
a Jefferson County commercial property assess clean energy and reliance program,
otherwise known as C Pacer, as amended in the presentation today. Very specific.
I will second that motion all in favor of the motion approving the Sea Pacer ordinance
as amended today on the floor indicate by saying II I, all right. Thank you for all
your work, Brent. We have a uh a Sea Pacers now part of the code. So you're two for
two. Yeah. No. Right. Bad in the 1000 now, I feel like we have the big one though.
Yes, this one. See Pacer Easy. The other one we have here to testify on this. I'm
going to be shocked on the, on the 330. We, we still have some time.
Um, I will be shocked too. They're aware it's happening, I think too. All right.
Well, thank you very much. Good to see you twice today, Brent. We'll let you get
back on with your, with your day. Yeah, we have time and we do have time. This hearing
is scheduled for 330. But, uh, um, um, I don't know anything else you want to talk
about. Phil.
No, thank you. Thank you very much for having me earlier. I was attempting to, uh,
to on board one of our DC DS newest hires. Oh, lovely here. Have a seat with Mark.
So we can, we can hear you online talk about D CD as long as we have it here. All
right. So, yeah, we, uh, on boarded, uh, I was in the process of trying to multitask
and on board our newest hire, uh, Aaron Martin, we started today as a, uh, the permit
center coordinator. Excellent. Um, and is also going to function as the inter gov
lead. So I was trying to do a really good, you know, on boarding experience for that
was trying to listen to Brent's presentation in the background. Ok. Sorry, I, yeah.
Yeah. No, that's, that's quite all right. It was just, it was like that turned around
to like, Phil, they're talking about you.
Well, yeah. Do you mind joining me at the radio on, on that Friday? Ok. We'll just
talk about the outcome of the hearing and, um, uh, yeah. Well, I won't preview
that, that, that conversation. But, um, I don't know anything else. I have a brainstorm
on fireworks. Can I share that with you? Sure. Absolutely. Let's do it. Um, we've
talked about, you know, getting an after action after last year's situation and I
have a, a different idea. That's just a brainstorm about how we could change the
ordinance. And I wanted to just put in your brain. I don't expect an answer or anything.
But it's, it seems like the biggest issues that we had were like when there was a
fire danger, most individuals were pretty respectful of that and the ones that weren't,
were a situation. That the law enforcement could deal with. Then there were larger,
uh, gatherings that were a challenge. Sometimes they were, you know, at places like
the Port's Ramp on Gardner, which the port didn't want it there. The neighbors didn't
want it. There, there was not really locals. It was just kind of a, uh, a normal
expedition from out of county. So it was less likely that they were aware of the,
um, the fire danger, uh, and the subsequent ban. And, uh, there are also some, you
know, like there's a couple of big ones out in Quil and one of those did stop. But
what I'm suggesting is we're asking about is if we had a less
onerous like consumer gathering, uh, a fireworks party where you're not absorbing
any liability or anything but saying if you fill out, you know, uh, a kind of a and
application, it doesn't mean that you're doing commercial fireworks, but you're going
to have a big gathering and, you know, the fire marshals then aware of it and can
share it with the fire department. They can come down and do, just make sure, you
know, they're shooting them over the water, not shooting them at houses, just kind
of a general fire safety and then banned them for everyone else. Right. And so there's
a couple of things there to unpack a little bit. So, um, we were all present for
the, uh, for the Gardner community, um, a chat. And so one of the things they identified
there as well was that, you know, the thing that I keep hearing, you know, there
as well as other places that, well, now the fireworks are banned, it's like, ok,
not necessarily that was for, you know, if conditions prohibit, um, you know, it's
not an all out ban, you know, in perpetuity, um, you know, kind of thing, which would
be a whole another conversation if we were going to do that. Um There are some, what
I understanding you're talking about is like having like a safe zone, you know, or
specific places where uh the fire departments are aware that there's gonna be specific
activity and things like that, you know, they could be concentrated. The uh, yeah,
the areas can be mowed, they can be, you know, and we talked about that even in the,
in the moment of having to put the fireworks ban on. I remember us saying, I wish
we had a, you know, a less onerous process for people who have fireworks gatherings
and, and there have been a couple of residents of District two who have reached out
to me with interest in that since last Fourth of July. So I'm, yeah, very interested
in this. I think one of the things too and I think it's a great idea and we definitely
should have more conversation about it. I think that one of the interesting things
about that though is that who's gonna handle the liability? Is it gonna be on a county
owned property? Is it gonna be on a port property owner? Who, who's gonna be the,
you know, who's gonna take on that responsibility for this? If you're doing a parade,
you put in a permit? So, just like the a gathering, I think what those permits are
called that we do special event permit. So a special event permit, you fill out the
existing special event permit. I want to do it here. Maybe you petition the port
to be able to use their boat launch in Quilcene, which I don't think they're necessarily
opposed to, you know, but then someone's taking responsibility for cleaning up the
garbage afterwards. And so you don't have the people that didn't throw the party
there, like the, the community of Gardner certainly complained about, you know, people
just come in, trash the place and leave and then I guess, you know, we'll clean up
after you after you've ruined our evening. So, yeah, I think you would have, you
would put the liability on the applicant for the special event permit. Absolutely.
Yeah, like I said, I think that we should definitely keep the, the lines of communication
open on that. Um, I also, I'm interested to see what fire districts should be interested
in hosting one of those type of events. Um, you know, there could be, uh, identify
specific areas where it wouldn't, you know, district two or wherever, you know, fire
district. Oh, I love it. Like, maybe the fire district actually throws the special
event. They possibly, I've seen, uh, community events where that's been successful
and where it's not. So we have to have a lot of more input from the, the fire districts
themselves and the chiefs and see, you know, where they, uh, there, uh, temperament
lies on that as well. And we've already missed the boat for 24 if we want to make
changes though, right? If we make it more restrictive, but making it less restrictive,
like we could, I believe if we said we are making a special event permit also able
to have more, that's a less restrictive, uh, uh, um, ordinance.
So it might is that have the same year, year pause for implementation one
way that we, we would have to check with, with, uh, uh, Mr Hunt on this. But to double
check to see if, should we run into the same situation next year? We have a declaration
of high fire hazard and, you know, we would have an all out, even if we did have
a safe zone that it would be less restrictive than what's in. So that may be a possibility
as well. Should we run into the same issues that we did this year? So we could start
working on that, you know. And, uh, uh, if we wanted to do it an all out ban, yes,
that would take the 366 days, one year in one day to take effect. But if we were
saying, I mean, assuming like the high fire standard is a much lower standard than
we had before 2023. So assuming we still have that same standard next year, um, and
it is high fire danger. According to the DNR and our local fire departments, we could,
you know, even a week before add uh ordinance, you can have consumer fireworks with
an approved special event plan, you know, sponsored by a fire, your local fire district
or something. And that would be something we could, uh that's definitely something
that we can invest. Yeah, I think that that would be a good compromise. Yeah. Ok.
Ok. And still allow celebration, you know, and that's the whole thing that, uh there
was a lot of, uh, well, as you saw a lot of, uh public comment one way and the other,
a lot of folks that were supported that a lot of folks that still wanted to celebrate
the way that they're used to. So I think that would be, could be a potential, healthy
compromise to allow some of that activity to still happen. So what would it take
to get that in place? We call it Greg's Choice. Uh It's called Kate's Choice. Everything
is kid's choice today. Um uh What would it take? Well, I mean, it would just, I mean,
we don't, we won't invite Mr Hunt around here to improv lawyer and I'm not sure they
like doing that. But, uh, no, I think if, if we are only we're not changing anything
that makes it more restrictive, it would just be about passing an ordinance talking
about and adding a new bit of code that with a special event permit or some other
thing. Um, you could do a community gathering for consumer fireworks is how I would
imagine during a declaration of high, during a declaration of high fire hazard, if,
if we follow my logic on that, then that would be less restrictive than what's in
place. So I do believe that that would be allowed. But again, see what our fire chief
say about that. I mean, we
will have to have a lot of input from the districts on that and again, get their,
get their, their feelings on that. Well, I mean, because it, it, yeah, I won't, I
won't argue for it anymore. But, uh yeah, it's just something to consider, but it
doesn't mean we need to get together sooner rather than later to have the conversations
and the after action that we were planning on. So I think we should get it on the
agenda book that, you know, first quarter of 24 maybe one of the things. Yep. One
of the things that I'm very interested in too is that, uh I actually, uh, was granted
a scholarship uh, next week to go to the, uh, the fire Prevention Institute sponsored
by the Washington State Association of Fire Marshals. So I'm going there along with
some local representatives from, uh, uh, East Jefferson Fire. I know has at least,
uh, uh, Brian Tracer is going as well. Um, so I'm really hoping to network and maybe
get some answers to some of these questions. I would love to just to see how other
jurisdictions are handling things because there's, there's a few things that I want
to bounce off of folks over there. And, uh, I'm really hoping that it's gonna be
a chance to network and, uh, and to get some solutions or some ideas, some talking
points and some of these things that we've been discussing, I appreciate the way
you're approaching it. Yeah, look forward to the, the debrief and, yeah, I mean,
I'm sure a lot of rural counties are, are dealing with a very similar sort of, uh,
impact, you know, uh, p polarization over this issue, which I, I definitely felt
there were, uh, there were people that would really like there to be no more fireworks
and there's a lot of arguments for that and people that would like there to be the,
the freedom to, to, to, uh express their patriotism with fireworks is a very important,
uh, part of their celebration. So great. Thank you. You got any brainstorms you want
to share? No, but this is something I've wanted to figure out a path forward on too.
So, it's, I'm glad we're having this conversation. Well, I guess the fire chiefs
should be at that conversation.
Yeah. And probably, I mean, I know one of the areas where in my district it's most
active is the beach at Chic Creek. So maybe public works parks. I mean, that
maybe is the second part of the conversation, you know, the sponsoring organizations
because I think the port would be amenable down down in Quilcene. And if Gardner
wanted it too, but if you had a, I mean, if you had the stakeholders in this special
event, the, the community that's in the uh fire district, that kind of isn't taking
liability, but it's just going out to make sure everyone's cool, basically. And uh
so we just got Phil is listening and he just sent us. All right. That will, here's
the law, what you are discussing is more restricted than state law. Even if you're
loosening your current, your local ordinance, what you adopt, even the ordinance
is adopted by a county or city that are more restrictive than state law have an effective
date no later than one year after their adoption. Um I don't believe that this is
more restrictive. I, I'd love to hear Mr Hucker. Yeah, we're just adding a special
event permit.
But what does state law say in terms of allowing for fireworks displays? I don't
know, does Mr Hunsucker want to come over and have an open conversation
won't hold you to anything.
Ha ha. He, he did it. It has been drafted.
Hello, Philip. Uh, sorry, don't have my camera up wasn't expecting to talk. But,
um, thank you for being a freewheeling lawyer, but I do have the courthouse up.
Um, yeah, I, um, I think, uh, it's going, what you're talking about is more restrictive
than state law. It may simplify things and you may want to do it anyway. Um, and,
uh, if we're, if we're going to, as promised, revise, um, you know, the law we have
regarding burn bands, you could do all this together. And I mean, what you're talking
about is similar to what we're doing for burn bands. So it might make sense to kind
of fold it all together. Uh, but you, you know, my, but I think you probably have
to wait a year for it to be effective for a year from the date of adoption. So you
look, if you got it done before next fireworks season, you'd be talking about the
year after that. Ok. Well, let's try to get it. Yeah, the conversation, you wouldn't
want it to be declared void because you didn't come, you didn't have the right effective
date on it and do all this work. And then so it just wouldn't make, wouldn't make
sense not to try to comply with the year, uh, delay period. That's in the state fireworks
law. Now, that makes good sense. Ok. Well, uh, you know, we'll, we'll try to schedule
something and of course, include your office in it as we, uh, sorry, having trouble
hearing you. Now, I said we'll, we'll try to schedule something early 24. Um, I assume
we'll wrap up. It's me. Oh,
I don't think it's me. Are we,
can you hear me now? Phil?
All right. Well, uh, we, we hear you and, uh, take your point that we probably would
not be able to implement it without the year delay. And, uh, well, we'll plan to,
to continue the conversation and, and early 24.
Ok. Um, I think that's my only ad lib. No other ad Libs come
on. Great ideas. Sometimes they come at least expect them. I don't feel very,
um creative today. Ok. That's,
I'm getting stuff done over here though.
Uh, that's good. Um,
well, um, I don't know, Mr Cecil, what else? Uh, do you wanna talk about? Can we
should, uh, let's see here. So we have, uh, we on boarded our first of, I do believe
four new hires a month. Um, so that was really exciting, you know, met with Erin
today. I think she's really excited to be on board and, uh, she's got a lot of, um,
uh, tasks ahead of her, but she's willing to tackle them. She's got a great attitude
about it. So I'm really looking forward to that. Uh, does she have any background
with products like inter gov or she has some database background. So, you know, obviously
previously worked for state entity, so somewhat familiar with similar type of programs.
Did you work with Chelsea previously? Ok. Great, excellent. Oh, got you over at Dol?
Ok. Um, nice. Seems like we're gonna have to start putting uh database management
into the planning curriculum in colleges, aren't we? It, it would seem so. Yes. Yeah.
Um, do you have to study GIS in, in planning school? And, uh, I would imagine so.
Ok, I'm not sure, but that has a pretty good, um, would have a solid foundation there
for sure, for, you know, checking flood maps and things like that. I'm gonna study
G I si think as part of my college actually looking forward to it, maps were just
so much fun. I did that. It was nice. Yeah, it is the environmental science track.
Ok. Well, I, I feel bad just, uh, spitballing ideas that f for another 30 minutes.
Um, so maybe we should, uh, take a brief recess. I'm sorry, you can rush down here,
Phil. But we're not, we, we can't really start the hearing before 330. So anything
else anyone wants to address you might as well? Mm. No. Ok. We could do the dead
air dance and just do email in front of the uh, we couldn't, we might think of something
we want. All right, let's, let's stay open for just a little bit here. And I'll,
I'll just chat with how are, how are uh building inspections going? Uh, building
inspections seem to be going very well, you know. Um, but we had, um, we still have
the two inspectors that are going, you know, pretty much full time. Um, you know,
the, we have some staff that is doing great. Um, our current permit tech, uh, Gabe
Shepherd is um studying to do uh more plan review, you know, he wants to be a plans
examiner. So that's been great. So I've been helping mentor him in that and, um,
he's looking forward to that.
Yeah, and I'm looking forward to have a, uh, a little bit less to do. So what have
you shipped off to the two building, um, consulting firms? Anything thus far, so,
so far, yes, there's the, the large project that I think that everybody's aware of.
Uh Pomona Woods, um, went to, uh, our contractor BHC, which is a great organization,
um, really excited to have them on board. Uh One of the main things is that they
have, uh, a gentleman on staff, um, named Shane Daughtry that worked for the factory
assembled structures program in Washington State Labor and Industries. He ran that
program for about seven years. So, which is really cool. I think it's gonna be a
really good asset when we get into the Pleasant Harbor stuff. Um, and then we also
have a, um, a remodel at the, uh Chimica school. Uh that just went
out to Townsend and Associates, one of our other consultants and that just went out
this morning. So kind of testing them out to see how all that process works and everything
and make sure that we're on the same page as how they get information and how they
respond to us and everything else. Ok. We're not crazy busy right now, you know,
we, we need them, but it's a good test to, you know, see how everything works, you
know, what the, what the turnaround times are and the process involves. So, are you
keyed into the, uh, the first? I, I guess it was George really doing the SDR work
and, and pushing that to some of the consultants of those. I was just very peripherally
involved in that. Mostly that was George. George has been great. He's tackled a lot
of big projects at D CD. I've been working with him a lot more on the, the pre app
that we had with, uh, with Pleasant Harbor. I'm working with him very closely on
that, but not so much on the SDR. Got you. Ok. And are you taking some of the fire
marshal services to one of the contractors? Uh Yes. So, uh Townsend Associates, Les
Townsend is a very, very, uh accomplished individual. Uh, he previously served as
the Deputy State Fire Marshal. Uh, he actually has a really cool, uh, plan review
class later in December that I'm looking to take from him as well. So he's uh he's
very active and I believe he's also one of the presenters for this uh uh state Fire
Marshals um Association uh course that I'm taking next week. So he's one of the,
you know, each day has a different presenter, uh several different uh things to learn
about. And a lot of networking again, like I'm, I'm really looking forward to that,
you know, see how uh other jurisdictions treat different things that, you know, I
haven't quite seen before or maybe there's a better way to handle than, you know,
what I traditionally have access to. So cool, exciting stuff. So, do you want to
be in person on the radio on Friday or uh virtual? You tell me what, what time are
we doing? Uh It's from 1230 to 1. So we kind of get queued up at 1225. If you're
around, let's do it in person. It's always a little more effective. So they still,
they're still at mountain view. Yeah. Um So just show up at 1225. I'll meet you there.
We'll walk in, I'll send you a little script. What do you think? An appropriate song?
We, we'll go till 1255 then we'll play out to a song. So uh Heidi already did
burning down the house. So the obvious ones. Um but uh yeah, think on it, I don't
have any to come to come right to mine but five minute song, longer song. They need
it to be five minutes. So think about it'll be Oh, wait. Yeah, because we're gonna
talk more about building code. So, hm, how about we didn't start the fire by Billy
Joel. Um, yeah, but we're gonna do building codes. We're gonna do the city. We built
this city. Yes. Jefferson Airplane. Yeah, that's a good sign. It's a good one. All
right. Ok. Now my mind's, my mind's are racing, so I haven't thought of any great
ones. All right, we built the city as the one to beat. I'm gonna write that down.
You walk in the room. Yeah, I walk in the room.
Wasn't that from the movie Mannequin that you guys remember the movie Mannequin?
No. All right. Uh, ok. Important stuff getting done. Ok.
Well, I'm done now. I'm, I'm, I'm tapped out. So let's, let's recess and tell 3 23
25 and we'll come back for our 330 hearing. All right, we'll let you off the hot
seat for a minute.
You know, when we're recording, recording in progress. All right, I will call us
back into session. We've got three minutes left by my clock before we begin the timed
hearing. Um, and as a reminder for folks we're gonna be joined by, Phil is here to
present on this and where the hearing will be about adopting the 2021 versions of
the international building codes and adopting new exceptions in the definition of
agricultural building and title 15, adopting the commercial fire inspection program
and amending the enabling code of the fire marshal and amending titles two and 15
of the Jefferson county code.
Oops and mute.
Ok.
So all of our microphones open because we were listening to building songs getting
ready for our Friday. Uh um A journey to KPTZ together. Thank you very much Phil
for trying to join me and be fine. See you in the parking lot. We'll pick a ball
afterwards if you have time.
We have no public shop for this. I think we need to extend this one for another week
because this feels like a big set of issues for us to be tackling today.
Nobody showing up to get their input.
Ok.
All right. But that's just my opinion. Mhm Yeah. No, I share your pain. It's
easy to keep the hearing open. Maybe in your presentation. Phil, you could talk a
little bit about timelines too and you know, hard, hard deadlines and, and such.
All right,
do.
All right. Uh I see 330 on my clock. So I will go to my opening
statement here. Uh Great. We welcome everyone to this hearing regarding the adopting
a new chapter of the Jefferson County code chapter. Fif oops the wrong one. Sorry,
of course.
C open here we go. Welcome everyone to this hearing regarding adopting uh the 2021
version of the international building codes and adopting new exceptions. Amending
the definition of agricultural building and title 15, adopting a commercial fire
inspection program, amend, amending the enabling code of the fire marshal and amending
titles two and 15 of the Jefferson County code. This public hearing is now open.
If you've joined this meeting via the phone and wish to provide hearing testimony,
please stay on the line and you will be provided an opportunity to speak during testimony.
If uh likewise, if you're on Zoom, we have no one in the chambers, but anyone that
wants to make live testimony, we would welcome that as well. And thank you for being
here before we open for public testimony. We will now listen to a staff presentation,
Mr C. Take it away. Excellent. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you members
of the board and so I can go ahead and share screen now. Ok. Fantastic. Did that
go in here
and do make sure to, you know, swallow the mic. All right.
Fantastic. Notice the nice logo that Phil develop there and
I saw that last week and I forgot to mention that. Well,
where are we going here? Hold on. It's getting away from me.
Oh, ok.
That was a, let me try that one more time. Quick preview.
Mm That's it. Yeah,
right there. The presentation right there. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate
that. Thank you, everybody. So yes, we are here today to talk about this uh uh some
amendments that I'm looking to do to the Jefferson County uh code. So it's gonna
encompass, uh recognizing some of our building codes as amended by the state. Um
I've got a couple of slides on that on exactly what the timelines look like for that
and why we need to do this. So if we go ahead and jump in here, so the proposed ordinance
that's following uh, contains some amendments. Uh, these are arising from a Scribner's
error in which we had referenced the wrong code on the original um draft of this
and we have since uh fixed that. Um And also there is a delay in the state code cycle
adoption and we'll get into that as well.
So we previously held a workshop on this, myself and uh Brent Butler were here in
front of the board and we presented to the Bocc and held a workshop for the changing
building code cycle on May 8th of 2023. The following amendments to the Jefferson
County code are necessary to accomplish DC D's mission of dedication to public safety
and transparency and code creation and interpretation. So these are the state building
code council is, was created to advise the legislature on building code issues and
to develop the building codes used in Washington State. These codes are help to ensure
buildings and facilities constructed in the state are safe and healthy for building
occupants, accessible to persons with disabilities, to elderly and be energy efficient.
The current 2021 code cycle was supposed to take effect. It was originally scheduled
for, uh July 1st of 2023. It was delayed 100 and 20 days to October 29th of 2023.
Uh, which is why we placed this hearing here trying to beat that deadline for the
October 29th. Uh, they since have been, since I started this process and had, uh,
put in to get on your schedule and everything like that. They've since been announced
that it will further be delayed until March 15th of 2024. However, some of the other
things we're going to talk about today, I would like to uh to get recognized by the
end of the year so that I can start fee schedules and things like that. Uh Other
things that are dependent on this, can you speak to why they've delayed it a second
time? Is, is it uh political or is it implementation related? It is uh a little bit
of both. So, uh some of the political aspects of this is that there is a uh pending
some pending litigation, mostly arising out of the energy code. Um You know, the
unfortunate thing to some of these things, you know, when you talk to a lot of the
coro professionals is that that's also gonna have unintended consequences with delaying
our wild and urban interface. And some of the other things that we're really going
to help public safety. Um, there's a couple of other things too. There's a couple
other options here that I'll get into in the following slide. Um, as to what could
potentially still happen with these codes at the state level and why it's, it would
be, uh, beneficial for us to, to adopt the, um, uh, the way that we do our codes,
the way that we have, adopt our state codes and our uh county code. Ok. So the amend
adoption date in the following again is amended to match the state adoption.
So what the future holds. So this could have a possible further delay. I mean, they
could vote to extend this again. Um Or they could skip the 2021 code cycle altogether
and go to the 2024 code cycle. Uh And regular implementation day would be July 1st
of every three years, one of the benefits to doing this. And this is again, this
is one of the proposals being put out there by uh W A which is the Washington State
Association of Building officials. Um One of the nice things about that, one of the
benefits would be that it would bring Washington State into the national code cycle.
So that when we are in a 2024 code cycle, we'd actually adopt them in 2024 we're
typically three years behind. So if we were to skip an entire code cycle, I, you
know, talking to some jurisdictions. They're not necessarily in favor of that because
they've spent so much in technical manuals and everything like that gearing up for
this code cycle. But we have pushed it so many times. Um, that, that could be a potential
option. Um, one of those still have to go through legislation at the state level
and, uh, don't know but it could be a potential but it's not wa's choice. Correct.
It's not wo's choice. But WBO is one of the strongest advisory voices for code reform
in the U SI. Mean, it's a great organization and it sponsored numerous state amendments
that eventually make national reform. So WBO is essentially early adopters for Washington
State where a lot of things get recognized on a national scale, you know, the coast
cycle after they get adopted by the state. So we're kind of pioneers in a lot of
ways for a lot of those things that uh really build, uh increase the safety in the
built community and lead to more public safety. But are you saying that if we adopt
this as the state does in March of 24 the 2021 building codes that we will then adopt
the 2024 building codes in July? Not necessarily what would probably happen is that
they would, if they delay them any further. One of the options could be beyond March
15th is that they could just skip the, just skip the 21 code cycle altogether and
go to the 2024 code cycle because at this point, it would be a full year after we
would have adopted. So it lead to a very, very short code cycle. I mean, if we were
going to stay on task with that every three years, then it would basically, it would
be a two year code cycle, we would have lost an entire year. Um So don't know if
that's gonna happen or not, but it's something that's being discussed at this point.
I don't know if they, if they are going to reach an agreement with the, uh, the litigation
that's out there right now. So this ordinance would allow the Jefferson County amendment
to reference Washington's to reference by Washington State administrative code, which
is a title 51 in the W A rather than a dated code cycle. Currently, if you go to
the Jefferson County code, we reference, um, W a title 51 as well as a code cycle
year. Currently, it says 2009 because nobody has gotten in here and has updated it
in quite a few years due to staffing and, and things like that. Um One of the nice
things is the benefits of doing this um ordinance is that this would
automatically reference just the W A not necessarily code here. So regardless of
what the implementation date is of the, the state code, we would automatically be
in line unless they change the whack, correct. Unless they change the whack. Right.
And then there would be a lot of jurisdictions that would be in the same boat to
go back. And yes, this, this method that I'm proposing is what several jurisdictions
including the city of Port Townsend do in their references, how they do their, uh,
their code. Um, let me see here. Ok. So the first, uh, portion here was in section
two. So this is changing, this is a slight change in language uh changed the language
of the role of fire marshal to the director of Community Development uh Department
of Community Development director or their designee or their designee would be the
change that we would be using because it currently is not there currently what it
says uh in, in section um chapter 2.40 0.010 just
references uh the fire marshal defines as the the director of community development.
So or their designee would help, you know, it just help to find the role of the fire
marshal uh to be designated to a separate position because we didn't previously have
a fire marshal. I mean, I was always went to the director, but now that we do have
that recognized position. So technically, we're out of the technically. Yes.
OK. In section three here, this is Jefferson County 1505 030. So this is what I was
talking about where the current code reflects a code cycle of 2009. Um the amended
language that I'm proposing reflects the, the whack and is always in lockstep with
current adopted state regulations. So regardless whether the state is in the 21 or
the 24 code, um we will have it by, by reference, um, you know, we will always have
the current most current code cycle published. So if we adopt this change, whether
it manifests at the end of October or in March, or they skip it entirely will be
up to date. Correct. And we wouldn't have to come back. I wouldn't have to come back
to the board every three years or every however often and have this amended so that
we have it. Can I, so I remember when we talked about this, was it in May, correct?
And, you know, there were, there are some pretty significant changes being proposed,
would that make it such that because it would be automatically updated? We wouldn't
have discussions about the changes that come up. Well, we al also already have an
auto adoption clause in our um, county code that says that we will auto adopt whatever
the state has in their uh title, uh 50 51 50. Um
So really, we already adopt it, we automatically do whatever the state does on their
adoption date. We just don't reference it fully here. And one of the, the benefits
of doing that is that every so often we get, I believe it's every, it's on a four
year cycle. Our building code effectiveness grading schedule, uh, which is called
the B eggs, which we just went through, we actually had an increase on it, which
was great, which is one of the ways that they do it is to the Washington, uh, State,
uh, Ratings Bureau. And that is one of the ways that they assess the, um, property,
uh, insurance premiums for all of the, uh, uh, citizens of Jefferson County for all
of the, uh, the landowners. And so with doing that, we've recently gone, um, got
a two step bump on that, uh, which was fantastic. We, we went from a four, yes.
Correct. From a 402, I believe, I'd have to double check that. Um, but, and that
was, uh, and that was great and so we still have a little bit of room for improvement.
One of the things, uh, to get our full rating on the, the BC schedule is, uh, having,
uh, currently published code cycle year. Um, and if we adopt the W AC that this would,
um, reflect that, you know, as opposed to currently, we're having that 2009 reference
code. Uh, so we would, if there's a change made though, it would come to the agenda.
Ok. I mean, I'm, I'm just concerned that there are like, right now, these proposed
changes are big and we've heard some concerns about them when when would there be
an opportunity for public comment from folks if we're doing this auto, auto adoption
of state? I mean, we, we could, at the code cycle, we could also do this and reference
a year. Um But again, these are changes that are made at the state level, right?
And so the only way that we could overwrite that um is that we have to petition the
building code Council and to have anything less restrictive than what is in the state
code. And that is a possibility, but it does go through a hearing process, a quasi
judicial process and that in order to, to be granted that whether we adopt it or
not, we still have to correct. Ok. Ok. Correct. Um Let's see here.
So, uh if we were to pass this, if, if you folks were to pass this, then the previously
un AOP state codes would now be referenced at Jefferson county code. So one of the
things is currently in Jefferson County code. We don't reference, say the Wildland
Urban Interface, there's no section for it because we haven't updated anything since
2009. Um So that section um and title 15 would be added uh referencing that state
wack for the Wildland Urban Interface. And um I believe that's the only new one.
It al it also does specify there is a uh uh residential energy code and a commercial
energy code that weren't present uh when this was drafted originally and again, uh
having a published code cycle, whatever, whatever it is, uh helps our b sex reading.
Ok. So section four, this is Jefferson County 1505 040, so
this is, there's a couple of things that got uh added here. So one of the things
was number 14 in the um exemption from work allows for work to be done for homes,
uh which are R three and garages and outbuildings, which is a U classification without
permit up to $3000. This allows flexibility for homeowner projects. The increase
comes from $1500 and allows for a little bit more relief and $1500 isn't a whole
lot, especially in today's material prices. So it gives a little bit of relief, gives
a little bit more flexibility in what you can do without having to pull a permit.
And how did you choose that jump? Was it just kind of, that's what's the, what's
the threshold that you're trying to not go over that where you really want to get
planning? So there's really not necessarily a set threshold. The biggest thing is,
is that, you know, we still obviously we are going to require permits for things
like H VAC work, things like that. Uh re roofing permits, things like that. Uh But,
you know, if you're going to do necessary repairs to your home and these numbers
for the $1500 seems incredibly low because that's supposed to be based upon a 12
month period. So, $1500 isn't a whole lot of maintenance on, on a home, you know,
so $3000 you know, that's doubling what's existing now. And I think that that's,
uh, a decent threshold without encouraging folks to do, uh, development without any
type of permitting. Should this go up? Like our fees go up? Yes, I, yes,
it's not necessarily tied to a um I'm not sure when the $1500 was put into our code.
Um but I'm not sure what the uh the rate of inflation would have been from, from
that date, but $3000 I still feel is something that you could do a decent amount
of work to your property um without having to pull a permit, but it wouldn't be something
major enough like a re roof or any of those massive H vac upgrades that we would
still want to have some enforcement ability on, you know, and, and do inspections
on. So number 14 is relative to the
international building code. Correct? Ok. I'm sorry about that. Yes. Correct. Make
sure that's something you added. That's not in the international, correct. There
was one that we had previously in our code and that is adding on because I believe
that there are 13 in the international building code and this would be uh exception
14. Um except, and uh again in section four here number 15, all I'm looking to do
is clarify the agricultural building use. Um And what this does is add the definition
for it. It also assists code compliance uh in issues that are arising from unclear
language and what we are having a lot of problem with. There was that folks trying
to occupy or habit is exactly. So it's something that it was uh I believe has been
somewhat abused over the years. Um, ag buildings are exempt from building permit.
Um, you know, and that was designed for greenhouses, you know, if you're actually
doing it for livestock, things like that. That's great. Well, we're seeing a lot
of issue with that is that, uh, folks that purchase property that were previously,
uh, in a building that want to use it for something else, you know, like, oh, we're
gonna turn that into the guest house now or we're going to, um, you know, because
this is cute little cedar barn and everything like that. And that's, and that's great
and it can be done. It just needs to have a permit associated with it for that change
of use.
Ok. So this section is amended to create, I can go back to solution. I definitely
dug into the farm stuff a lot and there's, there's vehicles that aren't licensed,
right. If you have a farm vehicle, you can keep it in an AG building. But if you
have like a AU TV or something that you use for farm purposes. It wouldn't be licensed
a lawn mower could, you know, could be an AG use. But, so that could be in an AG
building. It can't have a car, it can't be a garage. Exactly. That's what we're trying
to get away from is, uh, folks, you know, stuff them full of classic cars or something
like that. You know, now if it's a farm truck, you know, if I think there's, you
know, we're obviously not gonna go on a, on a case by case basis and see what you're
storing in your barn. Uh, but yes, we, we do, we want to discourage use of, uh, of
it as a garage, you know, that wasn't its intended purpose. And again, if you want
to use it for that purpose, great, we can go through a change of use process and
we can, you can use the building for whatever you'd like. Uh But that's not how it
was intended and that's not how it was exempt from permit. Got you. Yeah. Ok.
Right. So this section is amended to, to correct discriminators error. Um We had
a title two reference in there. We originally, when I was speaking with legal, we
were trying to figure out where we want to put this code section. We had two options
for it. And uh, unfortunately that other section had made it into the original so
that there's an am a little bit of an amendment there but the proper title for this
should be Jeffrey code 1505 046. And this is a new section. Correct. This is a
new section and the reason for the, the the potential for it to go into title two
is where it references the role of the fire marshal. And this new section is to is
to establish a fire safety inspection program. Uh This is gonna be mostly commercial
based. Uh There will be uh an annual Hospitality life safety aspect. Um One of the
things that happens currently is, you know, we uh D CD issues these permits for the
short term rentals, these hospitality permits and then there's no ongoing enforcement
whatsoever. So, I mean, um you know, after five years or so, we don't know if the
smoke detectors work, we don't know if you know what's going on the barrier to entry
for. This is actually pretty low. I mean, it's coming from a life safety perspective.
Um You know, we just, the public has a minimum expectation of safety, you know, that
um make sure the handrails are still there and making sure the water heater is still
strapped, making sure the smoke detectors are working, making sure that the the address
is posted. Um These things that are just basic maintenance and upkeep, um that I
think is very important that we've identified. We've also had some uh recently uh
out on Marist Island, we had a, an illegal uh, uh, I'm sorry, an illegal Airbnb,
um, that caught fire recently. Um, one that we had posted and then caught fire shortly
thereafter. Um, so it's been a bit of a mess, you know, and trying to clean up those
kind of things and that's, that's what we want to avoid. So, this goes all the way
down to a single transient rental. Correct. Ok. Correct. And the,
the, um,
the frequency of those inspections, we're still trying to work out, you know, obviously
managing on scale. Um We're going to go after the most um high risk occupancies
first. Um You know, uh the propane occupancies, uh fire uh sorry, not fire gas stations,
that sort of thing. Um Things that we've identified that are, you know, possibly
commercial kitchens, things like that, that need to have annual inspections that
uh have been infrequent in the past.
It also establishes the authority for the fire marshal to enter into local agreements.
This allows flexibility to address future and current investigation needs, for example,
like arson and loss of life. Um It's very difficult to keep an investigator on staff
with all of the uh proficiencies required to go through one of these, one of the
first things that happens in one of these arson or loss of life
hearings. Uh You know, if, if it, if it winds up going to court you wind up in court,
the uh investigator is going to be questioned on how often they perform these type
of inspections and you know, how many of those inspections have to do with what they
currently are investigating. Uh Currently Countywide, I'm told we have about six
events a year that require investigation. So it's very hard to keep all of your proficiencies
up when you're dealing with that infrequent of, you know, which is, which is great.
It's a great problem to have that. We don't have that many um loss of life or arson
issues. Um But there allow us the flexibility to possibly enter into other local
agreements with neighboring jurisdictions that have uh folks on staff that have that
experience, you know, or even within the fire districts themselves. Um So there are
some investigators uh that are current um in some of the fire districts this way
that they can be called upon by the county. It makes it a little bit more official
and it also establishes the collection of fees for permitting and inspection services
and that is all I have for my uh presentation. Thank you very much. All right. Any
questions Heidi, I've been asking them as we go. Me too. Ok. Well, thank you very
much, Mr CRE um as your elected officials, we want to hear your testimony on this
issue. Your testimony will help inform our deliberations and decisions. Um And before
I've got one more question, you answered it once, but I guess I, I just want to be
very clear, let's say that we didn't want to implement any of the I BC, what would
happen. So we would be in direct conflict with uh the state adoption. So, and that
is something that we could pursue. I don't know what the implications would be as
far as liability um without adopting that. Right? Ok. Thank you. Uh uh I'll
now open the hearing to listen to your public testimony. If you've joined the meeting
via the Zoom meeting link, please click on the hand icon located at the bottom of
the screen to raise your hand and you'll be brought over as a Panelist and asked
to unmute and share your video. If you wish, there can be a short delay when transitioning
to Panelist calling by phone, hit star nine to raise your hand and then star six
to unmute. And if listening to the live stream, you must mute the playback. So as
not to create feedback when called upon, please address your comments to the board
and not to the audience. Also, please be respectful of opinions by others that may
differ from your own. Each person will have up to three minutes and will uh since
this is uh testimony be required to state their name and their place of residence.
So uh is there anyone that would like to give testimony at this hearing today? You
can hit the raise hand button or star and I
not seeing any hands raised. I'll ask again. Oh, Here we go. Why don't we bring this?
Cheers over.
Hello again, Mr Tich. Thanks for being with us. If you have three minutes to give
public testimony. Ok. Thank you. Uh commissioners for the record. Tom Kirsch was
of Jefferson County three minutes off for three different ordinances. Well, we'll
try not very fair, but I'll try. So first, really quick on the fire inspection thing.
I hope that this is gonna apply to all sorts of commercial rentals including Air
BN BS, VRB, OS and ad us where they're just being rented out. That's a commercial
enterprise. And so these things need to be inspected, same as any other commercial
building. Um back to the agricultural storage building thing. That one, that one
really caught my attention. A lot of things about it are just uh oh, they're weird
and I think they're unjustified and unnecessary. Uh This whole business about not
using an agricultural storage building for things that aren't licensed as farm equipment.
I've got a Kubota tractor. I happen to have an agricultural storage building in a
SB I can't store my tractor in there because it's not licensed that this is I illogical.
It makes no sense. Sorry, that's gotta be fixed. Um The second question is ok. I've
got the storage building. I want to store my uh uh an antique car in there that I,
that I lovingly care for. What kind of permit do I need to store that? If I can't
store it in an A SB what kind of structure do I put it in? Uh Again, this, this whole
thing is just weird. Another phrase in there, uh, structures where, where the public
is invited. You need a permit. Well, what about the farm tour? You mean, I can't
take somebody into my barn without a permit. What kind of permit don't understand?
Uh the 10 ft separation that is unjustified, unexplained as to why it's there. Why
didn't have to be 10 ft away? I my storage building happens to be right up next to
my garage. Uh No separation needed. There's no rational reason for 10 ft and I certainly
wouldn't have the room to do it without tearing down a whole bunch of trees. So again,
this is not a good idea un unless somebody can really explain to me why it's absolutely
essential. Um The last thing is number 14 paragraph there where, you know, the, the
you have to document to the satisfaction of the building official that something
is, is ok. Well, that means that you got to pay the building official time and energy
to review your documents. So it's gonna cost money. Uh This just looks like fundraising
for D CD to me. Sorry, that's uh that's my cynical take on it. Um The last thing
on this auto adoption business, um You know, the code isn't free, the international
building code, you got to pay 100 bucks or more a year just to look at it. And so
if all these changes are happening and there's no visibility of the changes, uh that's
gonna be a problem for all sorts of people who are just trying to be compliant and
don't have the means to, to look this kind of stuff up. So, uh, I would like to see
the commissioners be briefed on all the significant changes that take effect automatically.
So at least the public is made aware in some sort of document that, that we can review
uh to see if uh if a change to the, to the building code has any effect on, on me
personally and that's my time. OK. Thank you. You're leaving time on the table, Mr
Tis. No, I'm joking. I really appreciate your testimony and I think we, I, I'm inclined
to extend this hearing to next week. Are you still inclined that way too? So we will
extend the testimony so we can take written testimony through, what is it 4:30 p.m.
on Friday the 13th? And then we'll, we'll finish this up next week. This is, you
know, as you say, Mr Chair, it really, it's really important and there's uh some
of the questions that we, so you'll have an opportunity to submit written testimony
to follow up and, and to uh make your points more explicitly if you would like, and
we would entertain that written testimony from anyone else as well. And um and then
continue deliberations will happen on, on October 16th at 2:30 p.m. So we won't take
more. We'll close oral testimony um at the end of today, but we will uh keep written
testimony open. Um And some of your questions I think we answered, I asked about
the U TV, but tractors are the same. I think an unlicensed farm vehicle is quite
obviously allowed in there. I think Mr C explained why the cars were explicitly taken
out because Sorry, Tom Church has raised his hand again.
Uh Mr Tierce, do you have a clarifying question?
Go go ahead, Mr Pierce. Did you have something?
No, I don't. As a panel, I just unmuted him so he might be Mr Chair, you can speak
if you have a clarifying question to ask. Did his hand never go down? It went down
and then when it came back up.
Ok, down now. Ok. Uh um Yes. Uh I, I don't know uh anyways to, to continue
to, to respond to Mr Tierce testimony and testimony is still open. Anyone else that
would like to make testimony, please hit the raise hand button. Um ok. Uh The
uh cars you, you talked about, many people are trying to use it for different things.
He had a couple questions on there that I'm, you know, the, the AG building I'm obviously
curious about as well, but I think you talked about the intent being to um
stop the abuse that is happening of the ag building to avoid building permits. But
can you speak? He talked about the 10 ft proximity and raised the point that Commissioner
Eisenhower did as well about all these changes being pretty opaque and how can we
make? So these changes are transparent to the public? Yes, absolutely. Thank you
for that. So the 10 ft rule, basically, it comes from fire code. So that's our minimum
separation without having any fire resistant construction between the two. I mean,
you can go right up to each other with, you know, uh depending on what the different
use of the occupancies is going to be, be it a garage or be it the hot workshop or
something like that. There, there are a lot of different fire separations that can
happen there 10 ft is what would be generally with a uh a combustible structure to
another combustible structure. So that's where that's coming from. Um As well as
those numbers are numbers that are also going to be in compliance with the new uh
Wildland Urban Interface code.
Again, our goal here is not to uh to reduce anything that you do um in an agricultural
building, for example, as you know, they have the, the concerts in the Barns series,
that kind of a thing and there's nothing wrong with that. But if it's going to be
held as a public assembly on a regular basis, especially for profit, then we need
to have a, uh, a life safety inspection of that, uh, premises and a change of use,
you know, so that the public is protected when they're in that, uh, you know, if
they don't have adequate egress so that they can get out because there's just a man
door or, you know, make sure that those things are, or if there's large double barn
doors, but they get locked during the performance, you know, or closed. Um, that
kind of a thing is what we're looking to mitigate that risk, right? So farm tour
would kind of be one of those exceptional events you're talking about regular public.
Yeah, exactly. Ok. And so, I mean, back to the issue of all these,
uh, yeah, code changes, upcoming code changes. Is there a,
is there a regularly scheduled opportunity for the public to comment on them at the
local level? Typically not that would happen at the state level? Um, you know, through
the, the state building Code Council, they do have, uh, open public forums, you know,
for these things. And, uh, again, that's open for public comment for quite a long
period of time, I believe, don't quote me on this, but I believe it's 60 days. Um,
I'd also like to, to point out another one of our, uh, our current, um, codes that
we have in here the way that it is written right now in, uh, uh, chapter 1505 030,
so the following codes, regulations and statute are hereby adopted by reference in
their current form or as after or as hereafter may be amended subject to the modifications
and, or amendments set forth here and below. And it lists all the different, uh,
wack chapters for the state and that's currently what we have. Um, so we're already
um, adopting what the state has in order. It's just basically what I'm trying to
do is reduce or take out where it says the 2009 edition of the international building
code so that whatever we have is the most current. So we don't have to update it,
but those rules aren't reflected in our code anywhere because that would be a mass.
I mean, you do as he says, I pay for the I BC, you know, so and on that point, the
I BC is free, there is a free version of it so you can't necessarily print, you can't
necessarily email it, but you can view it for free. Can we put that link on our D
CD website? I think that would be a good way to make it more accessible. Another
question in, in the testimony was um another one we answered and now I just forgot
it again. Um
old cars, old cars iii I think, I think you spoke about old cars, but maybe you can
reiterate it so I can remember the airbnbs that we do. This would mean an annual
inspection for airbnbs and even down to, if someone was renting out an AD U, but
capacity probably is gonna have to be built for that and you'd look at larger places.
Correct. So what happens right now is that D CD um permits short term rentals, which
is classifies anything under 30 days. Um And so that would be your Air BN BS, your
verbos, your um four rent structures. Um And so we currently have a database for
those that already have a permit. And so they would be uh subject to a inspection,
not sure exactly what the frequency of that's going to be annual or biannual, it
says annual on there, but that's more of a guideline possibly. We're, it depends
on how this program builds and how much um bandwidth I'm going to have, you know,
I don't know what staffing is going to be involved or anything uh yet, uh that commercial
inspection is going to be built, that's probably going to be a bit of a slow roll
out depending on how many we have 400 identified commercial occupancies in uh East,
the East Jefferson Fire Rescue uh district alone. So, depending on what we're going
to do with that and the uh the uh short term rentals, you know, currently we have
around 100 of them uh that have been um permitted, permitted at this point to play
that by 10, at least more than likely. Yes. So again, it's gonna be a managing on
scale effort. So uh the frequency is going to depend on exactly how much staffing
we have available to do those inspections. So it's also important to note that currently
when we do uh the inspection for a short term rental hospitality permit, when we
show up the frequencies is probably about half of them pass on the first inspection.
So, you know, having 100 of those, you can factor in the 50 you're gonna take at
least one follow up inspection. Um You know, just speaking in, in, you know, rough
numbers. So depending on, you know, the same thing probably is going to be true or
maybe even a slightly higher failure rate for commercial occupancies until we have
uh you know, all of the checklist distributed and exactly what's going to be required
for those businesses. So there's probably going to be a lot of education and probably
not as high of numbers initially is what I'm expecting for this roll out. So, fire
related, I did hear of a fire that was ignited on a hip camp this summer, not permitted,
not permitted. Hip camp. So hip camps are not part of the correct hip camps at this
point are something that the planning department and environmental health and myself
have been talking about pretty, pretty regularly. So it depends on exactly
what the requirements for hip camp are going to be. And that was kind of an ongoing
conversation at this point and what's gonna be required as far as facilities and
everything. It's, uh, it just seems like, but the, but the, the dryness of our soil
and our ground lately, it just seems like an increased recipe for disaster. Yeah.
But
I know, I know I'm a, I'm very much a camper kind of person. But,
ok, um, I'd like to call out to the public again. Anyone that would like to make
testimony on this ordinance. We're considering we would love to hear from you. You
can hit raise hand or star nine if you're on the phone. And as a reminder, we are
going to keep written testimony open until 4:30 p.m. on this Friday, October 13th.
And we will continue deliberations on October 16th 2023 next Monday at 2:30 p.m.
So we will not make a decision today, but we'll continue to deliberate then. But
we would like to hear from anyone else. If you have a testimony to give, you can
hit ray hand or Star and Eye.
I think we addressed most of the issues. What kind of outreach has been done to the
building community about these changes? So about these changes. So I uh reach out
monthly. There is a Jefferson County Homebuilders Association meeting, you know that
I'm present at uh as well as we have had scheduled uh an event through the Jefferson
County Homebuilders Association where we're gonna have uh uh we, we talked about
having a hybrid, having a lunch for the contractors and then in the afternoon, you
know, so that they had a specified time that they could get us one on one. And this
was an effort along with, uh, the city of Port Townsend, uh, Matt Lau, the building
official there and myself, uh, we're gonna be, make ourselves available, uh, during
a lunch session for the contractors and then open it up for the public in the afternoon
kind of a thing. Um, that was for the, we were trying to set it up before the, uh,
the code cycle was in a full swing. So, you know, everybody had a chance to organize
their thoughts. Well, now that it's been delayed, we, we have pushed that off so
we don't, don't have a date for that currently, but we were going to try to do an
outreach, you know, shortly before the code cycle ever gonna get their last minute
questions in kind of a thing at the conference we had. Did you have any get any hard
numbers? How much the new code might increase building costs? I mean, I've heard
some pretty startling numbers from, uh, from contractors. There is, there's to be
perfectly honest, not numbers that I trust. Um, you know, I've seen it from both
sides of the spectrum, I've seen from the Building Industry Association of Washington,
um, which, you know, the opposition has cried foul that's very inflated. Um, you
know, and the, the, the basis of this legislation and this, uh, uh, litigation that
I spoke of earlier, um, is through the energy code and where they're thinking that
there is, uh, a little bit, um, too rigorous of a, of a code change. Uh, now the
state has identified, um, the state legislature has identified, they wanted to hit
certain benchmarks for energy efficiency by certain dates, you know, same thing with
like the electric vehicles and, and everything else. Um So in order to do that, they're
on track to do that. But each time there's a jump, you know, there's a bit of public
outcry. So, and I think that's where they're at right now and there's, uh it's being
challenged on the constitutional basis that whether this is allowed or what, what's
the I, you know, it, it gets, uh it gets very complicated. There's several different
prongs to this um in there, but it is several um building industry um
associations that are associated with, not necessarily just in Washington State um
that are also trying to uh set the national stage to uh roll back this type of reform
because this new code is a national code that's being implemented in Washington.
The uh energy code is based upon the international um is based on the international
energy code, but Washington State modifies it pretty heavily um in the way that we
use our point system and our, our credits for doing different things. Um So it's
based upon it, but it is amended pretty heavily. So it is specific to Washington
State. And I guess one other question, I think this is kind of, you talked about
it a little bit and to Mr George's testimony as well, you know, if someone has, you,
you talked about encountering a lot of situations where uh an ag building ac
exception was asserted and then a new owner came or something and then they, you
know, using it just as a garage for either, you know, car collection. So the permit
process that they should go through is doing a change of use of that structure. And
does that include, then do they have to do like a b wop or a built without permit
or anything? Or is it just a change of use? This was an AG building now it's a garage,
correct? It would not be a b wop. It would be a change of use. So, you know, it was,
uh we're gonna take it and it makes sense because you have a different occupancy.
So you're doing something that was a barn, let's say it was for livestock or something
like that. Now, you want to use it as a garage. You want to store flammable fuels
in there. You want to store uh vehicles in there. You want to store different types
of things that it wasn't intended for originally. So, you know, it needs to have
a non combustible floor surface, you know, there's certain things that are required
for a garage that aren't required for, let's say a barn or a greenhouse or how would
a person know to do that? And why would they, I mean, I just, you know, probably
still won't get a very high, uh, uptick in people doing that. I mean, what's the
price? Is it like $1000 permit or? What's the game? I would have to double check
on that. I don't know that the permit fee off the top of my head for a change of
use, but I want to say somewhere the $700 range. Ok. And then, you know, not counting
the requirements that you may need depending on what you want to do with the structure
because there's rules now that that weren't there when you built it. You know, if,
if you have a barn and you want to put a, uh, a pottery kiln in there or something,
you know, that would require, you want to do hot work, you want to do blacksmithing
in there or welding or something that, you know, obviously you have, uh, you know,
a wood building that's somewhat of a tender box, you know, could have years of hay
on the floor or something, you know, that we definitely want to make sure that that
is a safe thing going forward. So there could be additional things are required or
uh in rare instances, it could be a possibility where uh it's too close to another
structure, you know, to do what you want to do with it without having some mitigation,
putting up Gypsum board, something like that to reduce the fire rating.
Thanks. So if I could, there's one other thing that I wanted to point out um in the
uh the comment that we had. So the definition of an agricultural uh structure that
was in the um uh I in the uh the proposal there, it was actually comes from state
whack language is not something that we developed um where it says that, you know,
it is not to be used by the public or place of human habitation or employment where
agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged. So that's where that basis
came from. That wasn't something that we just came up with on our own. That is actually
a legal definition in the administrative code. OK. Thanks for that clarification.
Appreciate your clarity, Phil, great, great presentation, good presentation. These
are big, big changes and I appreciate the way you're approaching it. So um let's
continue our hearing until next week, continue it until next week and, and written
testimony can be received up until Friday the 13th at 4:30 p.m. And I think because
we want to hear from you people. We do.
Um OK, so I'll close the uh the oral hearing now and we will continue our
deliberations uh Next Monday. The 16th at 2:30 p.m. Ok. And that, uh,
concludes our business here for the time being and, uh, concludes our business for
the day. So, I don't know anything else for the good of the order. It's been a, it's
been a headachy depressing day around the courthouse folks and I'm not gonna go into
specifics but big doings in the county family and
just feeling ever clim. Yeah. Ok. I, I did want to also note here that I, I just
got an email from uh Gabe Shepherd who we were speaking about earlier. Our great
permit tech from uh from D CD. And he's already put on a free version of the uh 2021
building code on our excellent.
His mother must be so proud. Ok, great with that. We are adjourned. Have a good week
everyone. Thank you.